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The arguments for Apple's failure seem to focus on what Apple isn't doing, rather than what it is doing. E.g. - they aren't establishing or milking a monopoly

by gibwell 13y ago

The arguments for Apple's failure seem to focus on what Apple isn't doing, rather than what it is doing. E.g. - they aren't establishing or milking a monopoly - they aren't making commodity hardware - they aren't engaging in predatory pricing What these things have in common is that they are easy to understand. The general negative commentary seems to be of the form "We can understand what everyone else is doing, but we don't understand what Apple is doing, therefore Apple must be doing nothing." There's nothing new about this. The only difference when Steve Jobs was alive was that they could say 'We don't understand what Apple is doing, but Steve Jobs is a genius so that explains their success."

lake99 13y ago
> - they aren't establishing or milking a monopoly - they aren't making commodity hardware - they aren't engaging in predatory pricing Huh? Yes, they are! A patent is a monopoly [1]. They did not invent this rotten system, but they sure are milking it for all it's worth. Not engaging in predatory pricing? Do you know how much Microsoft and Apple demand of Android manufacturers to let them keep their features? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government-granted_monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government-granted_monopoly
- huxley 13y ago
  Predatory pricing occurs when you sell a product at such low prices that it deters other companies from entering the market. Apple has many flaws but that isn't one of them. You are correct that patents are considered a form of monopoly, but that is a different sense of the word than what the OP refers to, that is, holding a monopoly over a particular good or market. Apple doesn't have a monopoly in any of the markets it participates in and there are plenty of substitute goods and competitive corporations within the same markets.
  - lake99 13y ago
    > Predatory pricing occurs when you sell a product at such low prices ... Thanks for correcting me on that. I was mistaken. > but that is a different sense of the word than what the OP refers to ... I am aware of that. > Apple doesn't have a monopoly in any of the markets it participates in ... The market is broader than just the end-users of phones. Share markets, patents, deals with collaborators (such as network operators, music companies), and bribes (mostly in less developed countries) are just as much a part of the market as end-users.
    - gibwell 13y ago
      > The market is broader than just the end-users of phones. Share markets, patents, deals with collaborators (such as network operators, music companies), and bribes (mostly in less developed countries) are just as much a part of the market as end-users. Please explain how any of this applies to Apple's business. At it stands it sounds like innuendo.
      - lake99 13y ago
        I wasn't talking specifically of Apple here. I was talking about the ways in which markets may have nothing to do with end-users. > Apple are doing nothing different from their competitors with regard to patents. This is absolutely wrong. Some companies are more aggressive than others when it comes to abusing patent, trade dress, and copyright laws. How many trade dress lawsuits have you seen Samsung, LG, HTC, etc. initiate against Apple? In the recent past, a handful of Apple's patents were invalidated because of prior art. How many companies filed lawsuits against Apple when iPhone implemented these features?
        babesh 13y ago
        Many: Samsung, Motorola, Nokia, etc... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-14/nokia-apple-payments-to-nokia-settle-all-litigation.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-14/nokia-apple-payment... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation
        lake99 13y ago
        I guess you haven't seen http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/if-android-is-a-stolen-product-then-so-was-the-iphone/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/if-android-is-a-s... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada#iPhone_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada#iPhone_controversy Like I said, some companies are more aggressive than others. Odd that you mentioned Samsung.
        13y ago
- gibwell 13y ago
  > but they sure are milking it for all it's worth. Apple are doing nothing different from their competitors with regard to patents.

by gibwell 13y ago

lake99 13y ago

> - they aren't establishing or milking a monopoly - they aren't making commodity hardware - they aren't engaging in predatory pricing Huh? Yes, they are! A patent is a monopoly [1]. They did not invent this rotten system, but they sure are milking it for all it's worth. Not engaging in predatory pricing? Do you know how much Microsoft and Apple demand of Android manufacturers to let them keep their features? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government-granted_monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government-granted_monopoly

huxley 13y ago
Predatory pricing occurs when you sell a product at such low prices that it deters other companies from entering the market. Apple has many flaws but that isn't one of them. You are correct that patents are considered a form of monopoly, but that is a different sense of the word than what the OP refers to, that is, holding a monopoly over a particular good or market. Apple doesn't have a monopoly in any of the markets it participates in and there are plenty of substitute goods and competitive corporations within the same markets.
- lake99 13y ago
  > Predatory pricing occurs when you sell a product at such low prices ... Thanks for correcting me on that. I was mistaken. > but that is a different sense of the word than what the OP refers to ... I am aware of that. > Apple doesn't have a monopoly in any of the markets it participates in ... The market is broader than just the end-users of phones. Share markets, patents, deals with collaborators (such as network operators, music companies), and bribes (mostly in less developed countries) are just as much a part of the market as end-users.
  - gibwell 13y ago
    > The market is broader than just the end-users of phones. Share markets, patents, deals with collaborators (such as network operators, music companies), and bribes (mostly in less developed countries) are just as much a part of the market as end-users. Please explain how any of this applies to Apple's business. At it stands it sounds like innuendo.
    - lake99 13y ago
      I wasn't talking specifically of Apple here. I was talking about the ways in which markets may have nothing to do with end-users. > Apple are doing nothing different from their competitors with regard to patents. This is absolutely wrong. Some companies are more aggressive than others when it comes to abusing patent, trade dress, and copyright laws. How many trade dress lawsuits have you seen Samsung, LG, HTC, etc. initiate against Apple? In the recent past, a handful of Apple's patents were invalidated because of prior art. How many companies filed lawsuits against Apple when iPhone implemented these features?
      - babesh 13y ago
        Many: Samsung, Motorola, Nokia, etc... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-14/nokia-apple-payments-to-nokia-settle-all-litigation.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-14/nokia-apple-payment... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation
        lake99 13y ago
        I guess you haven't seen http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/if-android-is-a-stolen-product-then-so-was-the-iphone/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/02/if-android-is-a-s... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada#iPhone_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada#iPhone_controversy Like I said, some companies are more aggressive than others. Odd that you mentioned Samsung.
        13y ago
gibwell 13y ago
> but they sure are milking it for all it's worth. Apple are doing nothing different from their competitors with regard to patents.