6 ms·

Craigslist does not collect payment to facilitate the stay. They do not offer insurance and serve as mediator during disputes. They do not operate concierge s

Craigslist does not collect payment to facilitate the stay. They do not offer insurance and serve as mediator during disputes. They do not operate concierge services. They operate significantly less like a hotel than airbnb.

nostromo 13y ago
Which is more "hotely" to you: 1) A place where you pay someone to stay overnight. 2) A website that helps people find and pay for #1.
- judk 13y ago
  Airbnb is #1. They take payment.
  - wpietri 13y ago
    As somebody who has used both sides of Airbnb, I think of them more as a transaction facilitator than as the vendor. Sort of like EBay, in that if I by something off EBay, I'm buying it from the seller, even if money does technically flow through their Paypal arm. Personally, as a customer, I would like to see them take care of collecting any necessary taxes, so that I can use the service in good conscience. If putting my place up on Airbnb requires me to collect extra cash and figure out how to get it to the city, there is no way I'm doing that.
    - malandrew 13y ago
      Exactly. Same goes for Stripe, Braintree and Paypal. For dozens to hundreds of industries, they are the ones that take the payment. Doing so doesn't imply that they operate in every industry for which they process payments.
      - code_duck 13y ago
        Offering a payment processing service for merchants is quite different than operating a marketplace. AirBnB is offering a marketplace, like eBay, Etsy, or a trade show, not a generic payment service.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    So does expedia.com
    - gamblor956 13y ago
      Expedia (and Orbit, and other travel sites) also collects and remits the taxes to the hotels, which then pass those taxes along to the proper state tax authorities. It does not appear that this "burden" has impacted their ability to handle hotels across the world in literally thousands of tax jurisdictions. Edit: Followup. Also, in a recent WSJ article within the past 2 weeks, they discussed Orbitz's (possibly Expedia's) use of tax collection arbitrage to earn extra profits. Basically, Orbitz collects tax on the retail price charged to a customer for booking a website on their hotel room...but Orbitz only pays the hotel the wholesale price, on which the tax is calculated. Orbitz remits the wholesale-based amount to the hotel, which remits the amount to the state. For example: if a room is booked for $120 in a 10% hotel-tax jurisdiction directly through the hotel, the tax would be $12. However, if it is booked through Orbitz for $100,the hotel tax due is the amount Orbitz pays the hotel to book the room, which is usually a reduced/wholesale price of say, $80, resulting in an $8 tax. Orbitz doesn't reduce the tax collected from the customer--it still charges $10, but it keeps $2. Needless to say, this is actually a large source of profits for Orbitz, and for tax reasons actually lets them manage profits by booking a liability for the taxes on the theory they could eventually be liable for remitting the entire $10.
      - jcater 13y ago
        That's interesting, because I swore when I had a tax license in my old state (MS), there was wording to the effect of all money collected that was listed as "State Tax" to the end customer had to be remitted to the state, even if it was greater that what should have normally been due. I think this was to avoid this exact situation of companies trying to make money off of taxes. Maybe that was specific to my state, but I would be highly surprised. I'll have to dig up that WSJ article. It sounds interesting.
  - briandear 13y ago
    What's the definition of a hotel? Not a "house someone rents." Airbnb is essentially a short-term lease management service. The VERY slippery slope this issue leads to is that NYC and San Fran can sink their claws into the hotel taxes, then won't these entities paying the hotel tax suddenly need to be compliant with hotel regulations, for example, fire exits, accessibility, etc as well as commercial insurance requirements, commercial business licensing, etc. This is a very dangerous road down which we travel. The interesting thing is to look behind this fight. I'm pretty certain that there's a Marriott, Holiday Inn or some other hotel conglomerate "donating" money to certain politicians to put pressure on AirBnb. Much like the large taxi companies put pressure on city governments over Uber. Put down the organic soy latte and turn down the Vampire Weekend and stop voting for these jackasses! Call their office and tell them -- if you want to apply 20th century paradigms to 21st century innovations, then you aren't qualified to be in office and I'm not voting for you. (Or something to that effect.)
belorn 13y ago
Actually, Craigslist do collect payment for facilitate the stay if its an apartment in New York. $10 per listing (http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/posting_fees http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/posting_fees).
- dangrossman 13y ago
  A property owner buying an advertisement is not the same as a renter making a rental payment. These transactions are not at all alike.
  - SilasX 13y ago
    They're somewhat alike in that the economic incidence of a tax on rentals will fall (in different proportions) on both of them, and in ways that the tax authorities can't control.

nostromo 13y ago

Which is more "hotely" to you: 1) A place where you pay someone to stay overnight. 2) A website that helps people find and pay for #1.

judk 13y ago
Airbnb is #1. They take payment.
- wpietri 13y ago
  As somebody who has used both sides of Airbnb, I think of them more as a transaction facilitator than as the vendor. Sort of like EBay, in that if I by something off EBay, I'm buying it from the seller, even if money does technically flow through their Paypal arm. Personally, as a customer, I would like to see them take care of collecting any necessary taxes, so that I can use the service in good conscience. If putting my place up on Airbnb requires me to collect extra cash and figure out how to get it to the city, there is no way I'm doing that.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Exactly. Same goes for Stripe, Braintree and Paypal. For dozens to hundreds of industries, they are the ones that take the payment. Doing so doesn't imply that they operate in every industry for which they process payments.
    - code_duck 13y ago
      Offering a payment processing service for merchants is quite different than operating a marketplace. AirBnB is offering a marketplace, like eBay, Etsy, or a trade show, not a generic payment service.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- kalleboo 13y ago
  So does expedia.com
  - gamblor956 13y ago
    Expedia (and Orbit, and other travel sites) also collects and remits the taxes to the hotels, which then pass those taxes along to the proper state tax authorities. It does not appear that this "burden" has impacted their ability to handle hotels across the world in literally thousands of tax jurisdictions. Edit: Followup. Also, in a recent WSJ article within the past 2 weeks, they discussed Orbitz's (possibly Expedia's) use of tax collection arbitrage to earn extra profits. Basically, Orbitz collects tax on the retail price charged to a customer for booking a website on their hotel room...but Orbitz only pays the hotel the wholesale price, on which the tax is calculated. Orbitz remits the wholesale-based amount to the hotel, which remits the amount to the state. For example: if a room is booked for $120 in a 10% hotel-tax jurisdiction directly through the hotel, the tax would be $12. However, if it is booked through Orbitz for $100,the hotel tax due is the amount Orbitz pays the hotel to book the room, which is usually a reduced/wholesale price of say, $80, resulting in an $8 tax. Orbitz doesn't reduce the tax collected from the customer--it still charges $10, but it keeps $2. Needless to say, this is actually a large source of profits for Orbitz, and for tax reasons actually lets them manage profits by booking a liability for the taxes on the theory they could eventually be liable for remitting the entire $10.
    - jcater 13y ago
      That's interesting, because I swore when I had a tax license in my old state (MS), there was wording to the effect of all money collected that was listed as "State Tax" to the end customer had to be remitted to the state, even if it was greater that what should have normally been due. I think this was to avoid this exact situation of companies trying to make money off of taxes. Maybe that was specific to my state, but I would be highly surprised. I'll have to dig up that WSJ article. It sounds interesting.
- briandear 13y ago
  What's the definition of a hotel? Not a "house someone rents." Airbnb is essentially a short-term lease management service. The VERY slippery slope this issue leads to is that NYC and San Fran can sink their claws into the hotel taxes, then won't these entities paying the hotel tax suddenly need to be compliant with hotel regulations, for example, fire exits, accessibility, etc as well as commercial insurance requirements, commercial business licensing, etc. This is a very dangerous road down which we travel. The interesting thing is to look behind this fight. I'm pretty certain that there's a Marriott, Holiday Inn or some other hotel conglomerate "donating" money to certain politicians to put pressure on AirBnb. Much like the large taxi companies put pressure on city governments over Uber. Put down the organic soy latte and turn down the Vampire Weekend and stop voting for these jackasses! Call their office and tell them -- if you want to apply 20th century paradigms to 21st century innovations, then you aren't qualified to be in office and I'm not voting for you. (Or something to that effect.)

belorn 13y ago

Actually, Craigslist do collect payment for facilitate the stay if its an apartment in New York. $10 per listing (http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/posting_fees http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/posting_fees).

dangrossman 13y ago
A property owner buying an advertisement is not the same as a renter making a rental payment. These transactions are not at all alike.
- SilasX 13y ago
  They're somewhat alike in that the economic incidence of a tax on rentals will fall (in different proportions) on both of them, and in ways that the tax authorities can't control.