3 ms·

I've presented my case as clearly as I could without writing a whole blog post. You are obviously certain that you are right and that I am wrong by a factor of

by marvin 13y ago

I've presented my case as clearly as I could without writing a whole blog post. You are obviously certain that you are right and that I am wrong by a factor of 3. I invite you to take a short position and put your money where your mouth is. It's a bit annoying to argue with someone who apparently doesn't believe enough in their case to act on it.

foobarqux 13y ago
I'm not certain the $68 valuation is right, the opposite in fact. That's why I was looking for a compelling argument for a $200-300 valuation for which I have found no defensible justification from you or anyone else. Again, valuation is not the same as price and we are not talking about price. Tesla's stock price is not being driven primarily by fundamental value. From the same author: " Once you accept the pricing proposition that the market price is what it is, the key to winning at the pricing game becomes forecasting changes in price rather than assessing whether the current price is right. As a consequence, your focus on news stories will become incremental and each news story will be assessed in terms of how it will change the price, rather than how it will affect overall value." I don't trade individual securities, I wouldn't trade a "hot" stock based on valuation since the price is then driven by other factors and I certainly would be reluctant to short any stock because shorting is a complicated trade: Shorting is a short term play, you need to know when to short or else you will be crushed by fees. You can also be bitten by things like squeezes and acquisitions and the fact that shorting without protection is unlimited liability. Shorting is far more dangerous than going long and even sophisticated professional money managers get burned, even when the stock is actually overpriced. QE-infinity makes shorting even more perilous. What is annoying is that you pretend you did a valuation before investing in Tesla and traded based on the valuation. Now you rationalize the trade to yourself by interpreting information in a way that suits the outcome, post hoc ergo proper hoc. You might make money but it won't be because of any justifiable insight you had.
- marvin 13y ago
  Well, I'm sorry that I annoyed you ;) If you do find a way to do a proper DCF with mostly-known variables on a growth company likely facing an industry-wide paradigm shift, make sure you capitalize on it by making an exception to your rule of not trading individual securities :P No one has claimed that this is a science, and this includes the hardcore value investors who often miss risks which the market had in fact priced in.

by marvin 13y ago

foobarqux 13y ago

I'm not certain the $68 valuation is right, the opposite in fact. That's why I was looking for a compelling argument for a $200-300 valuation for which I have found no defensible justification from you or anyone else. Again, valuation is not the same as price and we are not talking about price. Tesla's stock price is not being driven primarily by fundamental value. From the same author: " Once you accept the pricing proposition that the market price is what it is, the key to winning at the pricing game becomes forecasting changes in price rather than assessing whether the current price is right. As a consequence, your focus on news stories will become incremental and each news story will be assessed in terms of how it will change the price, rather than how it will affect overall value." I don't trade individual securities, I wouldn't trade a "hot" stock based on valuation since the price is then driven by other factors and I certainly would be reluctant to short any stock because shorting is a complicated trade: Shorting is a short term play, you need to know when to short or else you will be crushed by fees. You can also be bitten by things like squeezes and acquisitions and the fact that shorting without protection is unlimited liability. Shorting is far more dangerous than going long and even sophisticated professional money managers get burned, even when the stock is actually overpriced. QE-infinity makes shorting even more perilous. What is annoying is that you pretend you did a valuation before investing in Tesla and traded based on the valuation. Now you rationalize the trade to yourself by interpreting information in a way that suits the outcome, post hoc ergo proper hoc. You might make money but it won't be because of any justifiable insight you had.

marvin 13y ago
Well, I'm sorry that I annoyed you ;) If you do find a way to do a proper DCF with mostly-known variables on a growth company likely facing an industry-wide paradigm shift, make sure you capitalize on it by making an exception to your rule of not trading individual securities :P No one has claimed that this is a science, and this includes the hardcore value investors who often miss risks which the market had in fact priced in.