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I would greatly prefer a basic income to the thousands of poorly run programs that aim to help the poor. The poor are not helpless but simply don't make enough

by spikels 13y ago

I would greatly prefer a basic income to the thousands of poorly run programs that aim to help the poor. The poor are not helpless but simply don't make enough money for some minimal standard of living (i.e. they are poor). A side effect of many existing programs is that they make the poor dependent and actually discourage self-improvement. A basic income would minimize these unfortunate but real consequences of helping them. More info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

evincarofautumn 13y ago
A corollary from basic ecology: artificially adding prey to an area that cannot support more predators is tantamount to reducing competition amongst those predators, worsening the problem of motivation; or because of breeding, adding predators, worsening the problem of scarcity.
CrankyPants 13y ago
Yeah, the basic income is tough because it doesn't address all of the elements that discourage self-improvement, but it does address some. I'd be curious to see what the net decrease/increase in costs would be if the US wiped out the vast majority of assistance programs and switched over to a basic income. After that, someone would need to take a stab at seeing what the net increase/decrease is from the change in incentives and general societal structure.
mattlutze 13y ago
Interesting here is everyone would get it. Making 200k, 500k CHF a year? You also get the basic income. For mid-wage jobs, I imagine employers will reduce salaries to compensate, meaning the middle-class employee will likely net the same-ish. Or, rather, would stagnate raises for years until the salary equalizes. For people who make a lot of money and have more leverage over their salaries in negotiations, their salaries would likely not change, suggesting it'd be a government-sponsored raise. I'm curious where the money for this will come from, what percentage of personal and corporate taxes will be increased.

by spikels 13y ago

evincarofautumn 13y ago

A corollary from basic ecology: artificially adding prey to an area that cannot support more predators is tantamount to reducing competition amongst those predators, worsening the problem of motivation; or because of breeding, adding predators, worsening the problem of scarcity.

CrankyPants 13y ago

Yeah, the basic income is tough because it doesn't address all of the elements that discourage self-improvement, but it does address some. I'd be curious to see what the net decrease/increase in costs would be if the US wiped out the vast majority of assistance programs and switched over to a basic income. After that, someone would need to take a stab at seeing what the net increase/decrease is from the change in incentives and general societal structure.

mattlutze 13y ago

Interesting here is everyone would get it. Making 200k, 500k CHF a year? You also get the basic income. For mid-wage jobs, I imagine employers will reduce salaries to compensate, meaning the middle-class employee will likely net the same-ish. Or, rather, would stagnate raises for years until the salary equalizes. For people who make a lot of money and have more leverage over their salaries in negotiations, their salaries would likely not change, suggesting it'd be a government-sponsored raise. I'm curious where the money for this will come from, what percentage of personal and corporate taxes will be increased.