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Since nobody has come up with a DRM system that doesn't depend on a central service that can go away or change its terms, all DRM-based content is effectively r

Since nobody has come up with a DRM system that doesn't depend on a central service that can go away or change its terms, all DRM-based content is effectively rented. What is unethical about renting something? If you claim that your customer is "buying" something, that they will then "own", then yes, that's outright fraud. I am absolutely against that. But if it's a service, what's the big deal? You can sign up for the service or not. You don't have a supported platform? I guess you can't do it. Nothing new or surprising there. Find a different service, or find a different way to entertain yourself. If you want to talk about the death of ownership and the rise of rental, and how that might be damaging, that's a fine an interesting topic, but I don't see how it's about ethics.

shmerl 13y ago
What's unethical is not renting, but the DRM part which always comes with it. See my answer below.
quadrangle 13y ago
DRM doesn't hurt people who work around it, it ONLY restricts the people who use the service as offered! It isn't about piracy, it's about abusing customers. http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm_digital_restrictions_management http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm_digital_restric...
azakai 13y ago
> Since nobody has come up with a DRM system that doesn't depend on a central service that can go away or change its terms, all DRM-based content is effectively rented. If we consider anything that works to prevent media from being copied in violation of copyright, then there is one solution that does not have a central service, and is not rent-based: watermarking. Every purchase is watermarked for the specific customer. If they give someone else a copy, it is detectable from who they received it, so legal action is possible. But fair use is never prevented, as copying is always technically possible. (Yes, it is possible to remove watermarks, but it is also possible to get around DRM - all of these schemes are continuously escalating arms races.)
- acdha 13y ago
  Watermarking is a great idea and I would really like to see it replace DRM snake-oil but I think the real point was simply that nobody has successfully commercialized such a service. I think there's a need but it'd require deep pockets and good negotiators to get off the ground unless you had some sort of solid all-indie play
- ensignavenger 13y ago
  What happens if I sell the content, then the purchaser distributes it? Do I then get blamed for copyright infringement?
  - azakai 13y ago
    If you buy content for personal use, like you buy an episode of Game of Thrones, you aren't allowed to sell it to anyone. But you can copy it between your own devices as you see fit.
    - ensignavenger 13y ago
      If you can't sell it, it isn't yours- you don't own it. (At least, according to most definitions of ownership).
      - throwawaykf02 13y ago
        Another comment I made downthread might address this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495063
AJ007 13y ago
I'll point out I have "purchased" movies and TV shows from Amazon which I can no longer watch, because they were removed from Amazon's libraries. Online games that require validating with a central server after being downloaded? Try not to get a virus downloading a crack after the company goes under.

shmerl 13y ago

What's unethical is not renting, but the DRM part which always comes with it. See my answer below.

quadrangle 13y ago

DRM doesn't hurt people who work around it, it ONLY restricts the people who use the service as offered! It isn't about piracy, it's about abusing customers. http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm_digital_restrictions_management http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm_digital_restric...

azakai 13y ago

> Since nobody has come up with a DRM system that doesn't depend on a central service that can go away or change its terms, all DRM-based content is effectively rented. If we consider anything that works to prevent media from being copied in violation of copyright, then there is one solution that does not have a central service, and is not rent-based: watermarking. Every purchase is watermarked for the specific customer. If they give someone else a copy, it is detectable from who they received it, so legal action is possible. But fair use is never prevented, as copying is always technically possible. (Yes, it is possible to remove watermarks, but it is also possible to get around DRM - all of these schemes are continuously escalating arms races.)

acdha 13y ago
Watermarking is a great idea and I would really like to see it replace DRM snake-oil but I think the real point was simply that nobody has successfully commercialized such a service. I think there's a need but it'd require deep pockets and good negotiators to get off the ground unless you had some sort of solid all-indie play
ensignavenger 13y ago
What happens if I sell the content, then the purchaser distributes it? Do I then get blamed for copyright infringement?
- azakai 13y ago
  If you buy content for personal use, like you buy an episode of Game of Thrones, you aren't allowed to sell it to anyone. But you can copy it between your own devices as you see fit.
  - ensignavenger 13y ago
    If you can't sell it, it isn't yours- you don't own it. (At least, according to most definitions of ownership).
    - throwawaykf02 13y ago
      Another comment I made downthread might address this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495063

AJ007 13y ago

I'll point out I have "purchased" movies and TV shows from Amazon which I can no longer watch, because they were removed from Amazon's libraries. Online games that require validating with a central server after being downloaded? Try not to get a virus downloading a crack after the company goes under.