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2013 Lewis meditation results

29 points by Ashuu 13y ago

scottcha 13y ago
Interesting analysis but I think the last sentence sums up my sentiments: "Even if all the other issues could be dealt with and mindfulness meditation did improve arithmetic, what is it a valid proxy for?"
- hosh 13y ago
  Improved arithmetic is a side effect. I doubt there is any way to meaningfully quantify the beneficial effects of mindfulness meditation. Any long-term practitioner would be able to tell you that.
  - mbrock 13y ago
    Hmm. Tell Alan Wallace, the Shamatha Project, and the UC Davis Center for Mind and Brain! There's a lot of interesting variables and correlations to study in relation to meditation. My Zen teacher talked about some Shamatha Project study that found sustained concentration meditation to decrease neuroticism and increase conscientiousness. Anecdotally, he confirmed that this is what he has seen as a meditation teacher. I find it really weird to measure the efficacy of meditation by arithmetic puzzles, though. Is anyone claiming meditation makes you better at math? That doesn't seem like a big area of interest to me.
dmazin 13y ago
I'm very excited at HN's discovery of gwern.
- vdm 13y ago
  RSS?
- olegious 13y ago
  What exactly is gwern?
  - anonymoushn 13y ago
    gwern is a guy! You can read about him here http://www.gwern.net/Links http://www.gwern.net/Links
- nemo1618 13y ago
  his articles seem to be submitted in waves. Whenever he writes on some relevant topic there's always a big resurgence of interest in his site. Not that I'm complaining!
startupfounder 13y ago
It is really interesting to see the "Western" approach to meditation. I grew up in a Buddhist community and have sat week long meditation retreats without anyone quantifying results. It is interesting that Westerners have to be scientifically convinced that meditation will have a quantifiable outcome for it to be a helpful practice. It's like we know that eating fresh vegetables is good for us, but only when it is proven to us are we convinced that we should go ahead and eat fresh.
- 11001 13y ago
  And what's even more scary is many people's desire to "extract the active components" and turn them into pills/supplements/apps right away. [Copy-pasting my previous comment:] Sleep helps replinsh brain cells - let's make a pill that does just that so we don't need to sleep as much! Vegitables are good for you - let's have a pill that has all their nutrients so we don't need to eat them! Exercise betters the mood - let's isolate those chemicals so we don't need to exercise! Being barefoot is good for you - let's all buy "barefoot shoes"! I really don't get it. Why are people so averse to natural ways and ofetn simple moderation. I did not grow up in North America, so maybe it's just a cultural difference.
- nazgulnarsil 13y ago
  right on! it's like, we totally know that healing energy crystals benefit everyone, why do you have to come in here with your silly ideas about "reproducibility" and "cost benefit analyses"?
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  Catholic prayer meditation has been around for many centuries. By "western approach" I think you just mean the secular TED crowd yuppies. They could just as well go to very old Christian monastery retreats, but Christianity makes them uncomfortable.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >> It's like we know that eating fresh vegetables is good for us, but only when it is proven to us are we convinced that we should go ahead and eat fresh. How exactly do you think we came to know that eating fresh vegetables is good for us? The answer is science. I mean, sure, humans have preferred fresh vegetables over non-fresh ones for ages, but that's because fresh looks, smells and tastes better than non-fresh.
tdec 13y ago
Interesting to see such an amount of work done but it fails to take into account that a single month of meditation is not nearly enough to even begin to properly feel the beneficial effects it can have. In some areas, simply feeling might also still be a better choice than quantifying.
FrankBlack 13y ago
I guess it won't be long until the Discovery Channel hosts "Meditating With The Stars" and "Ultimate Meditation Championship".

29 points by Ashuu 13y ago

Interesting analysis but I think the last sentence sums up my sentiments: "Even if all the other issues could be dealt with and mindfulness meditation did improve arithmetic, what is it a valid proxy for?"

hosh 13y ago
Improved arithmetic is a side effect. I doubt there is any way to meaningfully quantify the beneficial effects of mindfulness meditation. Any long-term practitioner would be able to tell you that.
- mbrock 13y ago
  Hmm. Tell Alan Wallace, the Shamatha Project, and the UC Davis Center for Mind and Brain! There's a lot of interesting variables and correlations to study in relation to meditation. My Zen teacher talked about some Shamatha Project study that found sustained concentration meditation to decrease neuroticism and increase conscientiousness. Anecdotally, he confirmed that this is what he has seen as a meditation teacher. I find it really weird to measure the efficacy of meditation by arithmetic puzzles, though. Is anyone claiming meditation makes you better at math? That doesn't seem like a big area of interest to me.

dmazin 13y ago

I'm very excited at HN's discovery of gwern.

vdm 13y ago
RSS?
olegious 13y ago
What exactly is gwern?
- anonymoushn 13y ago
  gwern is a guy! You can read about him here http://www.gwern.net/Links http://www.gwern.net/Links
nemo1618 13y ago
his articles seem to be submitted in waves. Whenever he writes on some relevant topic there's always a big resurgence of interest in his site. Not that I'm complaining!

startupfounder 13y ago

It is really interesting to see the "Western" approach to meditation. I grew up in a Buddhist community and have sat week long meditation retreats without anyone quantifying results. It is interesting that Westerners have to be scientifically convinced that meditation will have a quantifiable outcome for it to be a helpful practice. It's like we know that eating fresh vegetables is good for us, but only when it is proven to us are we convinced that we should go ahead and eat fresh.

11001 13y ago
And what's even more scary is many people's desire to "extract the active components" and turn them into pills/supplements/apps right away. [Copy-pasting my previous comment:] Sleep helps replinsh brain cells - let's make a pill that does just that so we don't need to sleep as much! Vegitables are good for you - let's have a pill that has all their nutrients so we don't need to eat them! Exercise betters the mood - let's isolate those chemicals so we don't need to exercise! Being barefoot is good for you - let's all buy "barefoot shoes"! I really don't get it. Why are people so averse to natural ways and ofetn simple moderation. I did not grow up in North America, so maybe it's just a cultural difference.
nazgulnarsil 13y ago
right on! it's like, we totally know that healing energy crystals benefit everyone, why do you have to come in here with your silly ideas about "reproducibility" and "cost benefit analyses"?
a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
Catholic prayer meditation has been around for many centuries. By "western approach" I think you just mean the secular TED crowd yuppies. They could just as well go to very old Christian monastery retreats, but Christianity makes them uncomfortable.
enraged_camel 13y ago
>> It's like we know that eating fresh vegetables is good for us, but only when it is proven to us are we convinced that we should go ahead and eat fresh. How exactly do you think we came to know that eating fresh vegetables is good for us? The answer is science. I mean, sure, humans have preferred fresh vegetables over non-fresh ones for ages, but that's because fresh looks, smells and tastes better than non-fresh.

tdec 13y ago

Interesting to see such an amount of work done but it fails to take into account that a single month of meditation is not nearly enough to even begin to properly feel the beneficial effects it can have. In some areas, simply feeling might also still be a better choice than quantifying.

FrankBlack 13y ago

I guess it won't be long until the Discovery Channel hosts "Meditating With The Stars" and "Ultimate Meditation Championship".