5 ms·

I find it surprising that instead of shutting it down they didn't turn it into a huge honey trap.

by sycren 13y ago

Afforess 13y ago
Why? DPR was a much bigger criminal threat than most of the users that went on the SR. You don't let the head of the cabal get away to nab the underlings, that's just plain stupid.
- CodeCube 13y ago
  See, I don't know ... DPR was definitely a big fish, but only in a certain context. He obviously had the technical chops (and moral compass) to set things up the way he did, but at the end of the day, all he did was facilitate business for other (IMO) much bigger fish. I'm not in any way justifying his actions or anything like that. But I too was surprised that they just shut it down instead of just assuming control and going after what could have turned out to be cartels (assuming it wasn't just small time growers, etc.).
  - betterunix 13y ago
    More likely than not, some of the drugs sold on SR were produced by cartels. The SR sellers were probably so far down the supply chain that they could not have given the police any useful leads on the cartels. In case people have forgotten, SR itself was a target. There was pressure from Congress to shut it down, and it was probably the only goal of this operation: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Schumer-Calls-on-Feds-to-Shut-Down-Online-Drug-Marketplace-123187958.html http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Schumer-Calls-on-Feds-t...
  - wmf 13y ago
    DPR allegedly made over $80M from Silk Road; did any single SR vendor make more than that? When measured financially he's a pretty big fish.
    - rentnorove 13y ago
      I'd imagine there were a relatively small number of well-rated suppliers servicing the majority of trade, and fewer still producers. If DPR was in fact taking a ~10% cut, those suppliers would have stood to make considerable sums of money given the profit margins involved.
      - wmf 13y ago
        In retrospect there's a simpler way to state this. If one vendor had over 10% market share on SR then they probably earned more than DPR. Obviously there are between zero and nine such vendors.
- WildUtah 13y ago
  Catching drug kingpins is about publicity for the police and the unaccountable revenue stream of seizure proceeds for bonus income and toys for cops. It is well known that the ostensive purpose of prohibition -- the reduction of harm from drug addiction -- is not served by going after kingpins and cartels. There are always candidates to replace kingpins waiting in the wings and catching them only promotes violence as the candidates vie for status. The effective policing tactic is to arrest middle class casual users and subject them to the shame of felony records and probation. You hunt down the soft targets at their homes and parties in vast numbers and hit them where they care -- in their job prospects, reputation, and freedom -- by briefly imprisoning them long enough to disrupt their jobs or school. Then you require them to report for weekly drug tests for years with a guarantee of longer imprisonment if they use unauthorized drugs again. But the middle class voters won't support the drug war if you do that and there's no cash reward for cops in it or big media display either. So we're stuck with the wasted effort and public violence of going after kingpins. And the credulous public always goes for the lie that the really important work is going after kingpins. Somehow it sounds meaningful to people who haven't thought about the subject. It's the opposite of effective policing, though.
  - bcgraham 13y ago
    Catching kingpins seems important for rule of law and the legitimacy of the government. Do you have any examples of when drug use was effectively combated by the policing strategy you described?
simias 13y ago
Maybe they did for a little while, but that seems hard to do unless they target some users specifically. Tor hides the source IP of people connecting to the server and tracking bitcoin transactions is pretty difficult as well.
- binaryatrocity 13y ago
  Tracking bitcoin transactions THROUGH THE TUMBLER was pretty difficult. Any regular bitcoin transaction can be clearly followed on the blockchain.
dopamean 13y ago
They spent a lot of resources going after the big fish. You generally don't go deep see fishing, catch a marlin, and then trawl of minnows on the way back to port.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
swamp40 13y ago
Where's the glory in that?
damoncali 13y ago
Are you sure they didn't?

I find it surprising that instead of shutting it down they didn't turn it into a huge honey trap.

by sycren 13y ago

I find it surprising that instead of shutting it down they didn't turn it into a huge honey trap.

Why? DPR was a much bigger criminal threat than most of the users that went on the SR. You don't let the head of the cabal get away to nab the underlings, that's just plain stupid.

CodeCube 13y ago
See, I don't know ... DPR was definitely a big fish, but only in a certain context. He obviously had the technical chops (and moral compass) to set things up the way he did, but at the end of the day, all he did was facilitate business for other (IMO) much bigger fish. I'm not in any way justifying his actions or anything like that. But I too was surprised that they just shut it down instead of just assuming control and going after what could have turned out to be cartels (assuming it wasn't just small time growers, etc.).
- betterunix 13y ago
  More likely than not, some of the drugs sold on SR were produced by cartels. The SR sellers were probably so far down the supply chain that they could not have given the police any useful leads on the cartels. In case people have forgotten, SR itself was a target. There was pressure from Congress to shut it down, and it was probably the only goal of this operation: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Schumer-Calls-on-Feds-to-Shut-Down-Online-Drug-Marketplace-123187958.html http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Schumer-Calls-on-Feds-t...
- wmf 13y ago
  DPR allegedly made over $80M from Silk Road; did any single SR vendor make more than that? When measured financially he's a pretty big fish.
  - rentnorove 13y ago
    I'd imagine there were a relatively small number of well-rated suppliers servicing the majority of trade, and fewer still producers. If DPR was in fact taking a ~10% cut, those suppliers would have stood to make considerable sums of money given the profit margins involved.
    - wmf 13y ago
      In retrospect there's a simpler way to state this. If one vendor had over 10% market share on SR then they probably earned more than DPR. Obviously there are between zero and nine such vendors.
WildUtah 13y ago
Catching drug kingpins is about publicity for the police and the unaccountable revenue stream of seizure proceeds for bonus income and toys for cops. It is well known that the ostensive purpose of prohibition -- the reduction of harm from drug addiction -- is not served by going after kingpins and cartels. There are always candidates to replace kingpins waiting in the wings and catching them only promotes violence as the candidates vie for status. The effective policing tactic is to arrest middle class casual users and subject them to the shame of felony records and probation. You hunt down the soft targets at their homes and parties in vast numbers and hit them where they care -- in their job prospects, reputation, and freedom -- by briefly imprisoning them long enough to disrupt their jobs or school. Then you require them to report for weekly drug tests for years with a guarantee of longer imprisonment if they use unauthorized drugs again. But the middle class voters won't support the drug war if you do that and there's no cash reward for cops in it or big media display either. So we're stuck with the wasted effort and public violence of going after kingpins. And the credulous public always goes for the lie that the really important work is going after kingpins. Somehow it sounds meaningful to people who haven't thought about the subject. It's the opposite of effective policing, though.
- bcgraham 13y ago
  Catching kingpins seems important for rule of law and the legitimacy of the government. Do you have any examples of when drug use was effectively combated by the policing strategy you described?

simias 13y ago

Maybe they did for a little while, but that seems hard to do unless they target some users specifically. Tor hides the source IP of people connecting to the server and tracking bitcoin transactions is pretty difficult as well.

binaryatrocity 13y ago
Tracking bitcoin transactions THROUGH THE TUMBLER was pretty difficult. Any regular bitcoin transaction can be clearly followed on the blockchain.

dopamean 13y ago

They spent a lot of resources going after the big fish. You generally don't go deep see fishing, catch a marlin, and then trawl of minnows on the way back to port.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

swamp40 13y ago

Where's the glory in that?

damoncali 13y ago

Are you sure they didn't?