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I'm not sure what this would actually accomplish. I've been seeing articles lately where bullies are just ignored by schools even when repeatedly reported by pa

I'm not sure what this would actually accomplish. I've been seeing articles lately where bullies are just ignored by schools even when repeatedly reported by parents. It seems like universal advice on this topic is unreasonable to begin with. I recall in high school where the school would only get involved when something too big to ignore came up like some kid getting thrown through a window or something (this happened twice). I think the only advice I could give a child going through this is to fight back and fight back hard even if that means more short term pain. I don't think this is necessarily good advice but it might be the only option when the schools ignore these problems as a matter of de facto policy. Of course you could always home school and avoid this problem entirely :)

jnorthrop 17y ago
What I've told my kids is if they are being bullied get help from their friends -- not to fight back, but to help remove them from the situation. This is a difficult concept for them to grasp but I've been fortunate that my older son is friends with the bully victim so he's seen how this can work. What I suggested, and what he has done, is when the bully was picking on his friend to immediately go to his friend and get him out of there. He calls him over from a distance, or tells him he needs his help some where else. This is pre-planned with his friend so it occurs quickly and naturally. And you know what: It worked. The bully moved on to someone he could get a reaction from. Its hard to tell from the article but it sounds like the model to follow is this kind of approach.
- tptacek 17y ago
  That approach seems compatible with the article, but if it didn't readily resolve the conflict, the article wants your kids to come to you, for you to go to the principal, and for you to make it clear that the principal --- not the parents --- is expected to decisively and permanently resolve the problem. The article defines "bullying" as repetitive, implying that whatever your kids are doing to try to address it, the conflict isn't resolving itself.
antdaddy 17y ago
'I think the only advice I could give a child going through this is to fight back and fight back hard even if that means more short term pain' This is the exact advice I gave my son when he started middle school. I've also seen this advice given to convicts going to prison for the 1st time ;)
- biohacker42 17y ago
  I remember the advice my family gave me before the first day of school. If anyone messes with you beat the hell out of them, if you have to don't hesitate to use a chair, make an example out of them. Now here's the funny thing: I am not kidding or exaggerating! Long story short, some kid looked at me wrong, I threw him against the wall and he slid down just like you see in cartoons. That was in first grade and I've never been bullied. But seriously, don't try this at home kids.
  - antdaddy 17y ago
    on reflection, the actual advice I gave my son was that if anyone ever hit him, he had my permission to hit back if necessary to defend himself. If a bully sees someone isn't willing to be a victim, they tend to move on to an easier target.
  - run4yourlives 17y ago
    There is defending yourself and then there is actually being the bully. Which were you, do you think?
    - biohacker42 17y ago
      Honestly? Bully. But not often.
      - run4yourlives 17y ago
        Exactly. In that sense then I don't take your method to be something we should be teaching our children. No offence.
tptacek 17y ago
What's the value in teaching children how to respond physically to low-grade physical violence? It's not valuable in adult life. Corner a coworker at your office, shove them, stick a finger too close to their face while raising your voice: you're fired. Is your boss dumb enough to let it go, or worse, participate? Guess what: when employees sue, you lose, no matter what. Why should my kids waste a moment's time trying to handle violence and physical intimidation on their own? That's teaching them to handle problems with both hands tied behind their back. I want my kids handling problems smart, and "fighting back" and standing up to bullies on their own terms is playing to lose. There is all sorts of low-grade kids-stuff nonsense that doesn't need to be escalated. But we're not talking about that here. We're talking about kids who are so persistently targeted and oppressed by this juvenile bullshit that they're considering withdrawing from academic programs. Fuck that shit. If my son tells me he's quitting band because he's getting pushed around over it, I am going fucking ballistic. (For whatever it's worth, both my kids spend a good chunk of their discretionary time in martial arts. But they're doing that on its own merits, not as a tool to deal with behavior that would be overtly criminal if it occurred between adults.)
- JabavuAdams 17y ago
  > What's the value in teaching children how to respond physically to low-grade physical violence? It's not valuable in adult life. Corner a coworker at your office, shove them, stick a finger too close to their face while raising your voice: you're fired. Is your boss dumb enough to let it go, or worse, participate? Guess what: when employees sue, you lose, no matter what. Remember, we're talking about a response to aggression. In an office, no one is likely to be shoving you in the first place. If someone is, then you are certainly justified in responding physically if you cannot remove yourself from the situation. You've seen the internet video where an office-worker rages out, hurting others, and everyone just stands around because they've been conditioned to never use violence? They finally react far too late.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    In the altogether likely event that the circumstances that started an office fight are ambiguous, if you respond physically to a low-grade physical assault, you are very possibly going to get fired yourself.

jnorthrop 17y ago

What I've told my kids is if they are being bullied get help from their friends -- not to fight back, but to help remove them from the situation. This is a difficult concept for them to grasp but I've been fortunate that my older son is friends with the bully victim so he's seen how this can work. What I suggested, and what he has done, is when the bully was picking on his friend to immediately go to his friend and get him out of there. He calls him over from a distance, or tells him he needs his help some where else. This is pre-planned with his friend so it occurs quickly and naturally. And you know what: It worked. The bully moved on to someone he could get a reaction from. Its hard to tell from the article but it sounds like the model to follow is this kind of approach.

tptacek 17y ago
That approach seems compatible with the article, but if it didn't readily resolve the conflict, the article wants your kids to come to you, for you to go to the principal, and for you to make it clear that the principal --- not the parents --- is expected to decisively and permanently resolve the problem. The article defines "bullying" as repetitive, implying that whatever your kids are doing to try to address it, the conflict isn't resolving itself.

antdaddy 17y ago

'I think the only advice I could give a child going through this is to fight back and fight back hard even if that means more short term pain' This is the exact advice I gave my son when he started middle school. I've also seen this advice given to convicts going to prison for the 1st time ;)

biohacker42 17y ago
I remember the advice my family gave me before the first day of school. If anyone messes with you beat the hell out of them, if you have to don't hesitate to use a chair, make an example out of them. Now here's the funny thing: I am not kidding or exaggerating! Long story short, some kid looked at me wrong, I threw him against the wall and he slid down just like you see in cartoons. That was in first grade and I've never been bullied. But seriously, don't try this at home kids.
- antdaddy 17y ago
  on reflection, the actual advice I gave my son was that if anyone ever hit him, he had my permission to hit back if necessary to defend himself. If a bully sees someone isn't willing to be a victim, they tend to move on to an easier target.
- run4yourlives 17y ago
  There is defending yourself and then there is actually being the bully. Which were you, do you think?
  - biohacker42 17y ago
    Honestly? Bully. But not often.
    - run4yourlives 17y ago
      Exactly. In that sense then I don't take your method to be something we should be teaching our children. No offence.

tptacek 17y ago

What's the value in teaching children how to respond physically to low-grade physical violence? It's not valuable in adult life. Corner a coworker at your office, shove them, stick a finger too close to their face while raising your voice: you're fired. Is your boss dumb enough to let it go, or worse, participate? Guess what: when employees sue, you lose, no matter what. Why should my kids waste a moment's time trying to handle violence and physical intimidation on their own? That's teaching them to handle problems with both hands tied behind their back. I want my kids handling problems smart, and "fighting back" and standing up to bullies on their own terms is playing to lose. There is all sorts of low-grade kids-stuff nonsense that doesn't need to be escalated. But we're not talking about that here. We're talking about kids who are so persistently targeted and oppressed by this juvenile bullshit that they're considering withdrawing from academic programs. Fuck that shit. If my son tells me he's quitting band because he's getting pushed around over it, I am going fucking ballistic. (For whatever it's worth, both my kids spend a good chunk of their discretionary time in martial arts. But they're doing that on its own merits, not as a tool to deal with behavior that would be overtly criminal if it occurred between adults.)

JabavuAdams 17y ago
> What's the value in teaching children how to respond physically to low-grade physical violence? It's not valuable in adult life. Corner a coworker at your office, shove them, stick a finger too close to their face while raising your voice: you're fired. Is your boss dumb enough to let it go, or worse, participate? Guess what: when employees sue, you lose, no matter what. Remember, we're talking about a response to aggression. In an office, no one is likely to be shoving you in the first place. If someone is, then you are certainly justified in responding physically if you cannot remove yourself from the situation. You've seen the internet video where an office-worker rages out, hurting others, and everyone just stands around because they've been conditioned to never use violence? They finally react far too late.
- tptacek 17y ago
  In the altogether likely event that the circumstances that started an office fight are ambiguous, if you respond physically to a low-grade physical assault, you are very possibly going to get fired yourself.