4 ms·

> I don't think anyone would disagree that PL theory, as a body of work, has produced a set of languages whose penetration in the real world is oddly small both

> I don't think anyone would disagree that PL theory, as a body of work, has produced a set of languages whose penetration in the real world is oddly small both given (a) the investment in these technologies, and (b) the many real advantages of typed higher-order programming. I'm a PL theorist, and I disagree. Who cares about your opinion on PL theory, its practitioners, and its textbooks? Is internalizing your hate for TAPL necessary for understanding the semantics of Urbit and related technologies? Why don't you just state succinctly what your ideas are and let them stand on their own merits. That being said, I have no idea what your ideas are. Your website is unintelligible. Ironically, one of the things PL theory provides is a common vocabulary amongst practioners, which helps us communicate. I shouldn't have to learn a new alphabet (or in your parlance, a set of runes?) to figure out what new ideas you bring to the table. That kind of stuff is just not interesting to me. It's like if you 'rejected' English and wrote the rest of your work in Esperanto.

urbit 13y ago
Am I not entitled to an opinion? You certainly are. You could tell me _why_ you disagree. And I would listen. We may mean different things by "practitioners." I mean programmers. Unfortunately, your vocabulary is not common to programmers and shows no signs of becoming so. Mine isn't either. But at least I've only been trying for a week. I know it seems strange to introduce new designs in the 21st century - most people assume, rightly of course, that everything worthwhile got figured out in the 20th.
- chrismonsanto 13y ago
  > Am I not entitled to an opinion? ...You could tell me _why_ you disagree. Why I disagree with your disparaging remarks aimed at PL theorists is irrelevant. The Urbit documentation should say what Urbit is, why it is important, and how to use it. Your disparaging remarks do not help to answer these questions. In fact, they do the opposite by antagonizing many readers and unfortunately giving you the appearance of a crank. Therefore, you should remove the remarks. Knocking down PL theory does not boost Urbit up. > We may mean different things by "practitioners." I mean programmers. Unfortunately, your vocabulary is not common to programmers and shows no signs of becoming so. This is flamebait. > I know it seems strange to introduce new designs in the 21st century - most people assume, rightly of course, that everything worthwhile got figured out in the 20th. This is a strawman, and a particularly odd thing to say to someone who is also interested in advancing the state of the art.
  - urbit 13y ago
    We have an asymmetry of discourse here, because you want me to take your disparaging remarks seriously. You also seem not at all concerned about your own appearance. Yes, there is a purpose to the disparaging remarks. The purpose is to make this asymmetry apparent. Academia in the late 20th century is something of a footnote to the great achievements of the 19th and early 20th. In this golden age of science, peer disparagement was more or less universal. It is only in the second half of the 20th, the golden age of grants as it were, that genuinely criticizing your peers becomes a faux pas, and team-building becomes the essential skill for a practicing scientist. But wait, I'm not your peer at all. I guess I forgot that...
    - chrismonsanto 13y ago
      > But wait, I'm not your peer at all. I guess I forgot that... I'm afraid I don't have anything else to add to this discussion. Good luck with your endeavors.

urbit 13y ago

Am I not entitled to an opinion? You certainly are. You could tell me _why_ you disagree. And I would listen. We may mean different things by "practitioners." I mean programmers. Unfortunately, your vocabulary is not common to programmers and shows no signs of becoming so. Mine isn't either. But at least I've only been trying for a week. I know it seems strange to introduce new designs in the 21st century - most people assume, rightly of course, that everything worthwhile got figured out in the 20th.

chrismonsanto 13y ago
> Am I not entitled to an opinion? ...You could tell me _why_ you disagree. Why I disagree with your disparaging remarks aimed at PL theorists is irrelevant. The Urbit documentation should say what Urbit is, why it is important, and how to use it. Your disparaging remarks do not help to answer these questions. In fact, they do the opposite by antagonizing many readers and unfortunately giving you the appearance of a crank. Therefore, you should remove the remarks. Knocking down PL theory does not boost Urbit up. > We may mean different things by "practitioners." I mean programmers. Unfortunately, your vocabulary is not common to programmers and shows no signs of becoming so. This is flamebait. > I know it seems strange to introduce new designs in the 21st century - most people assume, rightly of course, that everything worthwhile got figured out in the 20th. This is a strawman, and a particularly odd thing to say to someone who is also interested in advancing the state of the art.
- urbit 13y ago
  We have an asymmetry of discourse here, because you want me to take your disparaging remarks seriously. You also seem not at all concerned about your own appearance. Yes, there is a purpose to the disparaging remarks. The purpose is to make this asymmetry apparent. Academia in the late 20th century is something of a footnote to the great achievements of the 19th and early 20th. In this golden age of science, peer disparagement was more or less universal. It is only in the second half of the 20th, the golden age of grants as it were, that genuinely criticizing your peers becomes a faux pas, and team-building becomes the essential skill for a practicing scientist. But wait, I'm not your peer at all. I guess I forgot that...
  - chrismonsanto 13y ago
    > But wait, I'm not your peer at all. I guess I forgot that... I'm afraid I don't have anything else to add to this discussion. Good luck with your endeavors.