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I would like examples of Obama authorizing the assassination of journalists/activists/etc., and not someone who's been called the "bin Laden of the Internet". I

I would like examples of Obama authorizing the assassination of journalists/activists/etc., and not someone who's been called the "bin Laden of the Internet". Its much easier to be outraged about extrajudicial killings when the target isn't linked to Al Qaeda.

nikcub 13y ago
al-Alwaki's 16 year old son was also killed in a drone strike. He was a US citizen[1] Pakistani report shows that in 70 drone strikes between '06 and '09 94 children were killed [2] [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-kil... [2] http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/blog/2013/07/22/get-the-data-the-pakistan-governments-secret-document/ http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/blog/2013/07/22/get-the...
- berntb 13y ago
  I thought that for a military bombing weapon, the drones have very good statistics for civilian causalities? (If they should be used to target the people they are targeting is another question.) (Also, terrorists that know they have a target painted on top of their head are not the responsible part, if kids they spend time with die?) About Pakistani statistics: Note that Pakistani politicians approving of drones (an unofficial deal [about drones, with USA] was leaked iirc?) are targeted for murder. So public condemnations are not worth much there. Anyway, afaik Pakistan do lots of cross border terror attacks on Afghanistan and India, then lie consistently. Pakistani claims about this subject just aren't trustworthy.
JackFr 13y ago
Remember that 'the bin Laden of the internet' was not operationally involved in any terrorism. His role in Al Qaeda was more like, let's say, Bill Ayer's relationship to the Weather Underground.
- berntb 13y ago
  So you say Goebbels would not have been an ok US target during WW2, if he was an American citizen? (Sorry, I just can't see how it is ameliorating that the Nazi side did non-warcrime attacks too, in contrast to alQ? :-) )
  - JackFr 13y ago
    As an official government functionary of a country with which Congress had declared war, I imagine there would be scant legal difficulty in finding him guilty of treason in absentia. But absent that, no, I would not find it alright to target Goebbels if he were an American citizen. Forget about email snooping or IRS targeting, I think as a citizen the first thing I should demand of my government is not to be killed without due process. It's seriously disturbing that the President has an extra-judicial kill list on which he can place US citizens.
    - berntb 13y ago
      >> As an [active participant] of a country with which Congress had declared war [it is ok to kill a target] Ok, so your problem is just that alQ is a non-country organization (after the Taliban fell, at least). There is no party to make a formal declaration of war against, and police is not applicable, so the US population should stop complaining and accept terror attacks... Right, I got your position. I think you are arguing dishonestly and know your position is impractical. The point with doing this "terror" thing is to influence a more or less democratic country by scaring the voters. If a group succeeds with that the politicians will do anything to stop the terror, because they won't get reelected otherwise. Now, point is -- there will be damn good support of most everything, law book out the window etc, because if the terrorists aren't stopped the voters go apeshit again at the next big attack. (You will get maybe even torture and assassinations of terrorists in neutral counties.) Again: Most any president, in any democratic country, will do anything -- in order to stop terror groups from scaring the voters. This reaction on terror is probably built into the democratic system. You don't have to like it, of course. (No, arguing for a stiff upper lip among the population doesn't help with committed terror groups. If the population doesn't react, the terror groups up their attacks to get the reaction they aim for. ) But I think you knew all that and just looked for a reason to condemn. Edit: Rewrote for clarity, so I have something to copy/paste next time.

nikcub 13y ago

al-Alwaki's 16 year old son was also killed in a drone strike. He was a US citizen[1] Pakistani report shows that in 70 drone strikes between '06 and '09 94 children were killed [2] [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-killed-my-grandson.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-drone-that-kil... [2] http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/blog/2013/07/22/get-the-data-the-pakistan-governments-secret-document/ http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/blog/2013/07/22/get-the...

berntb 13y ago
I thought that for a military bombing weapon, the drones have very good statistics for civilian causalities? (If they should be used to target the people they are targeting is another question.) (Also, terrorists that know they have a target painted on top of their head are not the responsible part, if kids they spend time with die?) About Pakistani statistics: Note that Pakistani politicians approving of drones (an unofficial deal [about drones, with USA] was leaked iirc?) are targeted for murder. So public condemnations are not worth much there. Anyway, afaik Pakistan do lots of cross border terror attacks on Afghanistan and India, then lie consistently. Pakistani claims about this subject just aren't trustworthy.

JackFr 13y ago

Remember that 'the bin Laden of the internet' was not operationally involved in any terrorism. His role in Al Qaeda was more like, let's say, Bill Ayer's relationship to the Weather Underground.

berntb 13y ago
So you say Goebbels would not have been an ok US target during WW2, if he was an American citizen? (Sorry, I just can't see how it is ameliorating that the Nazi side did non-warcrime attacks too, in contrast to alQ? :-) )
- JackFr 13y ago
  As an official government functionary of a country with which Congress had declared war, I imagine there would be scant legal difficulty in finding him guilty of treason in absentia. But absent that, no, I would not find it alright to target Goebbels if he were an American citizen. Forget about email snooping or IRS targeting, I think as a citizen the first thing I should demand of my government is not to be killed without due process. It's seriously disturbing that the President has an extra-judicial kill list on which he can place US citizens.
  - berntb 13y ago
    >> As an [active participant] of a country with which Congress had declared war [it is ok to kill a target] Ok, so your problem is just that alQ is a non-country organization (after the Taliban fell, at least). There is no party to make a formal declaration of war against, and police is not applicable, so the US population should stop complaining and accept terror attacks... Right, I got your position. I think you are arguing dishonestly and know your position is impractical. The point with doing this "terror" thing is to influence a more or less democratic country by scaring the voters. If a group succeeds with that the politicians will do anything to stop the terror, because they won't get reelected otherwise. Now, point is -- there will be damn good support of most everything, law book out the window etc, because if the terrorists aren't stopped the voters go apeshit again at the next big attack. (You will get maybe even torture and assassinations of terrorists in neutral counties.) Again: Most any president, in any democratic country, will do anything -- in order to stop terror groups from scaring the voters. This reaction on terror is probably built into the democratic system. You don't have to like it, of course. (No, arguing for a stiff upper lip among the population doesn't help with committed terror groups. If the population doesn't react, the terror groups up their attacks to get the reaction they aim for. ) But I think you knew all that and just looked for a reason to condemn. Edit: Rewrote for clarity, so I have something to copy/paste next time.