4 ms·

Lesson: Do not ever cooperate with the police. Seriously? So if I get mugged in the street or if I have my home burgled I should do what?

by Toenex 13y ago

knowaveragejoe 13y ago
I think it would be more appropriately phrased as "do not ever cooperate with the police if it is unsolicited interaction".
- Udo 13y ago
  You shouldn't solicit interaction with the police either, unless it's an absolute emergency life-or-death situation. In all other cases, the best outcome of an interaction with the police is that nothing happens. There is a misconception that they're on your side as long as you've done nothing wrong, or as long as you have a reasonable complaint, but they are simply not. Their job is to get people in front of a judge, to make them pay fines, or to get them into prison. All things being equal, they'll be working with the closest target they can see and that's you if you solicit them. They basically behave like predators.
  - lotsofcows 13y ago
    Hmmm, how bizarre. When we had trouble with a contractor, the police knocked on her door and told her a complaint had been filed. Nothing more was required to stop the trouble. When my kid was ill in the car and I stopped (illegally) on the hard shoulder, the police car that investigated pulled back a bit with it's lights flashing until we could continue. My kids have set in police cars many times when they've been monitoring events. I've worked with the police a number of time when organising events. Where do you live? I want to make sure I never visit there.
bcoates 13y ago
Call your insurance company, if you're insured, then get on with your life. The cops don't have a time machine and they don't give a shit about you getting mugged or your stuff getting stolen. If you work hard enough you might get a police report out of them for insurance purposes. I don't have a good text source lying around but here's a law professor and a cop explaining the downside: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
- elliottcarlson 13y ago
  Not all cops let things slide. Some see it as a job, some get a power trip, and others take pride in their work. I've posted this before on HN, but will quickly cover it again; A few years ago, my wife was at school and (completely her own fault) left her purse in the class during lunch (this is a medical career school and the class had about 8 students). That night we received a call from Chase asking about a string of purchase attempts using one of her cards - which she then realized was missing. Based on the list of places the card was used, we went to the stores the following day explaining what happened. Once we had done the leg work, confirmed that they would have video surveillance during the time the card was used, we called the police. The officers that showed up went to great lengths to file the report, work with GameStop, Target and Stop&Shop security personnel to not only get us to identify the person, but get video evidence of the crimes at each location. In the end, the classmate who stole the card was prosecuted and served jail time in two separate counties as well as payment of damages (small, but still) for the attempted use of the card which got her nothing in the end. Coincidently, the detective on the case also saw that the girls mom had a warrant out for her arrest so they picked her up as well. The experience was very positive from our side of things - and perhaps it's not the common experience people hear about, but these officers were very happy to help. As a side note, the county that these officers were in was not a small, nor "safe" county and it wasn't a matter of them not having anything else to do at the time. All that being said, the original advice of not talking, and knowing your rights should definitely be adhered to if you are on the other side of things. The way everything was used to aide us, can also be used against you. Not all police will treat you the same.
  - bougiefever 13y ago
    This is a good example of how people should use police services. They were and prepared, and they did as much of the legwork as they could. The advice to stay away from the police and to not talk to them when they are soliciting you is also good advice, but maybe not when taken to the extreme. Imagine if the shop owners refused to cooperate? It would have been much harder to solve this crime. There are some guidelines that I think can help. If you get stopped for a traffic stop and the cop says he wants to take a quick look through your car, you should (respectfully) decline. That can lead to nothing good for you. If you think you might be suspected of a crime (right or wrong), or you don't know why the police want to talk to you, do not go and meet with them. If you get arrested, get a lawyer and let him/her deal with talking to the police. You can talk to the judge if it comes to that. If they explain that they are investigating a crime and you have some information or evidence they need, go ahead and help them if you are not a target. Just remember, the police are not your friend. They do not care about your life. They will lie to you and manipulate you if it suits their purpose. However, they do in fact serve an important function, that you may need them someday. Use them for their intended purpose. The system is certainly imperfect, but does work much of the time. I believe the trend towards police wearing body cameras during every interaction can only lead to good things for everyone.
brubaker 13y ago
"Do not cooperate with police" is generally parroted by middle/upper class white people that have only had a minor run in with those "fascist" campus police
mcv 13y ago
If you need them, by all means, talk to them. But if they need you, get a lawyer first.
alan_cx 13y ago
Yes. Well, ish. At most, do the minimal reporting you have to so. The problem is, as a human you might innocently give the officer some cause to suspect you in some way, or in some way mitigate the crime against you. I know people who have felt more anger after the police turn up to do their thing than they did on discovering the crime. I would only involve the police in something I felt was very serious, which had to be solved, and could not be solved any other reasonable way. My definition of something very serious? Don't know till it happens, and frankly I'm sure we all have our own ideas of limits. Burglary wise, don't know about other countries, but here in the UK the only real reason to report a normal burglary is to get a crime number for the insurance company. Mugging is pretty much the same, assuming you have something stolen which is insured. And luckily that can be very minimal, Im think, cant be sure, you can report crime online and get an instant crime number for insurance purposes. I think it probably only worth it is people get physically hurt or something vital is stolen and can't be replaced. Even then...
GFischer 13y ago
It's not the U.S., but I was robbed twice in the last few months. I lived at the most populous neighbourhood in my city, and so I reported the theft to the police station, they made me enumerate my belongings and gave me some papers stating what I had lost. A few weeks later, I called to inquire if some advance had been made, and the lady told me "no, we haven't recovered anything"... but I hadn't given her my case number ! So they hadn't recovered anything for anyone.. in a 100.000 people neighbourhood... At least in my country, if there's no violence or some important reason to go after the criminal, police won't pursue. They don't care much about material losses (they do have a decent track record aprehending murderers and such).

Lesson: Do not ever cooperate with the police. Seriously? So if I get mugged in the street or if I have my home burgled I should do what?

by Toenex 13y ago

Lesson: Do not ever cooperate with the police. Seriously? So if I get mugged in the street or if I have my home burgled I should do what?

knowaveragejoe 13y ago

I think it would be more appropriately phrased as "do not ever cooperate with the police if it is unsolicited interaction".

Udo 13y ago
You shouldn't solicit interaction with the police either, unless it's an absolute emergency life-or-death situation. In all other cases, the best outcome of an interaction with the police is that nothing happens. There is a misconception that they're on your side as long as you've done nothing wrong, or as long as you have a reasonable complaint, but they are simply not. Their job is to get people in front of a judge, to make them pay fines, or to get them into prison. All things being equal, they'll be working with the closest target they can see and that's you if you solicit them. They basically behave like predators.
- lotsofcows 13y ago
  Hmmm, how bizarre. When we had trouble with a contractor, the police knocked on her door and told her a complaint had been filed. Nothing more was required to stop the trouble. When my kid was ill in the car and I stopped (illegally) on the hard shoulder, the police car that investigated pulled back a bit with it's lights flashing until we could continue. My kids have set in police cars many times when they've been monitoring events. I've worked with the police a number of time when organising events. Where do you live? I want to make sure I never visit there.

bcoates 13y ago

Call your insurance company, if you're insured, then get on with your life. The cops don't have a time machine and they don't give a shit about you getting mugged or your stuff getting stolen. If you work hard enough you might get a police report out of them for insurance purposes. I don't have a good text source lying around but here's a law professor and a cop explaining the downside: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

elliottcarlson 13y ago
Not all cops let things slide. Some see it as a job, some get a power trip, and others take pride in their work. I've posted this before on HN, but will quickly cover it again; A few years ago, my wife was at school and (completely her own fault) left her purse in the class during lunch (this is a medical career school and the class had about 8 students). That night we received a call from Chase asking about a string of purchase attempts using one of her cards - which she then realized was missing. Based on the list of places the card was used, we went to the stores the following day explaining what happened. Once we had done the leg work, confirmed that they would have video surveillance during the time the card was used, we called the police. The officers that showed up went to great lengths to file the report, work with GameStop, Target and Stop&Shop security personnel to not only get us to identify the person, but get video evidence of the crimes at each location. In the end, the classmate who stole the card was prosecuted and served jail time in two separate counties as well as payment of damages (small, but still) for the attempted use of the card which got her nothing in the end. Coincidently, the detective on the case also saw that the girls mom had a warrant out for her arrest so they picked her up as well. The experience was very positive from our side of things - and perhaps it's not the common experience people hear about, but these officers were very happy to help. As a side note, the county that these officers were in was not a small, nor "safe" county and it wasn't a matter of them not having anything else to do at the time. All that being said, the original advice of not talking, and knowing your rights should definitely be adhered to if you are on the other side of things. The way everything was used to aide us, can also be used against you. Not all police will treat you the same.
- bougiefever 13y ago
  This is a good example of how people should use police services. They were and prepared, and they did as much of the legwork as they could. The advice to stay away from the police and to not talk to them when they are soliciting you is also good advice, but maybe not when taken to the extreme. Imagine if the shop owners refused to cooperate? It would have been much harder to solve this crime. There are some guidelines that I think can help. If you get stopped for a traffic stop and the cop says he wants to take a quick look through your car, you should (respectfully) decline. That can lead to nothing good for you. If you think you might be suspected of a crime (right or wrong), or you don't know why the police want to talk to you, do not go and meet with them. If you get arrested, get a lawyer and let him/her deal with talking to the police. You can talk to the judge if it comes to that. If they explain that they are investigating a crime and you have some information or evidence they need, go ahead and help them if you are not a target. Just remember, the police are not your friend. They do not care about your life. They will lie to you and manipulate you if it suits their purpose. However, they do in fact serve an important function, that you may need them someday. Use them for their intended purpose. The system is certainly imperfect, but does work much of the time. I believe the trend towards police wearing body cameras during every interaction can only lead to good things for everyone.

brubaker 13y ago

"Do not cooperate with police" is generally parroted by middle/upper class white people that have only had a minor run in with those "fascist" campus police

mcv 13y ago

If you need them, by all means, talk to them. But if they need you, get a lawyer first.

alan_cx 13y ago

Yes. Well, ish. At most, do the minimal reporting you have to so. The problem is, as a human you might innocently give the officer some cause to suspect you in some way, or in some way mitigate the crime against you. I know people who have felt more anger after the police turn up to do their thing than they did on discovering the crime. I would only involve the police in something I felt was very serious, which had to be solved, and could not be solved any other reasonable way. My definition of something very serious? Don't know till it happens, and frankly I'm sure we all have our own ideas of limits. Burglary wise, don't know about other countries, but here in the UK the only real reason to report a normal burglary is to get a crime number for the insurance company. Mugging is pretty much the same, assuming you have something stolen which is insured. And luckily that can be very minimal, Im think, cant be sure, you can report crime online and get an instant crime number for insurance purposes. I think it probably only worth it is people get physically hurt or something vital is stolen and can't be replaced. Even then...

GFischer 13y ago

It's not the U.S., but I was robbed twice in the last few months. I lived at the most populous neighbourhood in my city, and so I reported the theft to the police station, they made me enumerate my belongings and gave me some papers stating what I had lost. A few weeks later, I called to inquire if some advance had been made, and the lady told me "no, we haven't recovered anything"... but I hadn't given her my case number ! So they hadn't recovered anything for anyone.. in a 100.000 people neighbourhood... At least in my country, if there's no violence or some important reason to go after the criminal, police won't pursue. They don't care much about material losses (they do have a decent track record aprehending murderers and such).