4 ms·

I would like to point out we're also significantly more overweight, have higher rates of heart disease, have a quickly aging population of baby boomers etc.. Yo

by kenrikm 13y ago

I would like to point out we're also significantly more overweight, have higher rates of heart disease, have a quickly aging population of baby boomers etc.. Your argument is not logical as there are plenty of other reasons we have higher healthcare costs other then that we're not single payer.

daguar 13y ago
Actually, the reason real reason US health costs are much higher is that the unit-cost is much higher. Check out the unit cost differences here: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/an_insurance_industry_ceo_expl.html http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/an_insur...
toomuchtodo 13y ago
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec12/medicine_09-24.html http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec12/medicine_09... "But I think the biggest single driver is our fee-for-service system that rewards volume instead of value and quantity of medical services instead of quality. And as a result, we end up doing a lot of things that cause more harm than benefit for patients." Also: "What that dramatic variation tells us is that there's a lot unnecessary medical care that's being delivered and a lot of room to eliminate some of that wasteful spending."
dragonwriter 13y ago
> I would like to point out we're also significantly more overweight, have higher rates of heart disease, have a quickly aging population of baby boomers etc.. Those are all, arguably, consequences of the poor access to health care in this country and the short-term incentives in this country to delay care. IOW, they are products of the system that we pay more for (per capita or even per GDP -- or even either way only considering public expenditures and excluding the private costs) than first world countries that provide universal coverage through government single-payer systems.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ams6110 13y ago
  I see this argument a lot: people go without care, or delay early treatments that would be cheaper, because they can't afford to go to the doctor. I'm sure this is true to a degree, but making terrible diet choices, being sedentary, and being 100 lbs overweight is not a consequence of not having health insurance. And I really don't see the avoidance of primary care being primarily financial either. A yearly routine physical is not very expensive, and is often free at many public health clinics. Likewise common preventive care like flu shots, pap smears, and prostate exams. A big reason a lot of people don't go to the doctor is that they don't like going to the doctor. I'm in that group. Having insurance doesn't change that.
  - zanny 13y ago
    There is a huge cultural difference between almost every single payer nation and the US. For example, I haven't seen a regular doctor in 3 years for any kind of check up, because I'm uninsured. Meanwhile, I have friends in Canada that get quarterly or even monthly checkups. It isn't even a cost thing, they say it is cultural - their parents and peers expect them to regularly see a doctor to make sure nothing is wrong with them, and if they sneeze wrong they see the doctor. I dislocated my knee this spring and reset it and just stayed in bed for 2 weeks. Never saw a medical professional, because they would want to x-ray (it might have broke, it was much more painful than a normal dislocation to me, and swelled huge for a while) and I'd be stuck with a $3 - 5k bill minimum just for that, combined with any treatment, and I'd laugh if they'd want me in physical therapy for it. So it isn't just about not haivng a doctor to say 3 bic macs a day is bad for you, it is that in most other places people do see their doctors, regularly, and for most issues, beucase it doesn't bankrupt them. That adds up over a lifetime.
    - ams6110 13y ago
      I haven't been to see a doctor in at least 5 years, and I have insurance.

by kenrikm 13y ago

daguar 13y ago

Actually, the reason real reason US health costs are much higher is that the unit-cost is much higher. Check out the unit cost differences here: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/an_insurance_industry_ceo_expl.html http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/11/an_insur...

toomuchtodo 13y ago

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec12/medicine_09-24.html http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec12/medicine_09... "But I think the biggest single driver is our fee-for-service system that rewards volume instead of value and quantity of medical services instead of quality. And as a result, we end up doing a lot of things that cause more harm than benefit for patients." Also: "What that dramatic variation tells us is that there's a lot unnecessary medical care that's being delivered and a lot of room to eliminate some of that wasteful spending."

dragonwriter 13y ago

> I would like to point out we're also significantly more overweight, have higher rates of heart disease, have a quickly aging population of baby boomers etc.. Those are all, arguably, consequences of the poor access to health care in this country and the short-term incentives in this country to delay care. IOW, they are products of the system that we pay more for (per capita or even per GDP -- or even either way only considering public expenditures and excluding the private costs) than first world countries that provide universal coverage through government single-payer systems.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ams6110 13y ago
I see this argument a lot: people go without care, or delay early treatments that would be cheaper, because they can't afford to go to the doctor. I'm sure this is true to a degree, but making terrible diet choices, being sedentary, and being 100 lbs overweight is not a consequence of not having health insurance. And I really don't see the avoidance of primary care being primarily financial either. A yearly routine physical is not very expensive, and is often free at many public health clinics. Likewise common preventive care like flu shots, pap smears, and prostate exams. A big reason a lot of people don't go to the doctor is that they don't like going to the doctor. I'm in that group. Having insurance doesn't change that.
- zanny 13y ago
  There is a huge cultural difference between almost every single payer nation and the US. For example, I haven't seen a regular doctor in 3 years for any kind of check up, because I'm uninsured. Meanwhile, I have friends in Canada that get quarterly or even monthly checkups. It isn't even a cost thing, they say it is cultural - their parents and peers expect them to regularly see a doctor to make sure nothing is wrong with them, and if they sneeze wrong they see the doctor. I dislocated my knee this spring and reset it and just stayed in bed for 2 weeks. Never saw a medical professional, because they would want to x-ray (it might have broke, it was much more painful than a normal dislocation to me, and swelled huge for a while) and I'd be stuck with a $3 - 5k bill minimum just for that, combined with any treatment, and I'd laugh if they'd want me in physical therapy for it. So it isn't just about not haivng a doctor to say 3 bic macs a day is bad for you, it is that in most other places people do see their doctors, regularly, and for most issues, beucase it doesn't bankrupt them. That adds up over a lifetime.
  - ams6110 13y ago
    I haven't been to see a doctor in at least 5 years, and I have insurance.