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I'm not talking about MTurk specifically, but about all below minimum wage jobs. > but they're unable to realize that, so we should decide for them because we

I'm not talking about MTurk specifically, but about all below minimum wage jobs. > but they're unable to realize that, so we should decide for them because we know best They are we, we are they, we're one society and if we democratically set a wage floor, then yes, we know best. That's rather the point of democracy, to remove choice about some things from the individual and make them together because it's better for us all despite what any one individual might choose. > Or is the safety net not available to them because MTurk exists? Because if it's the latter, I don't see why wouldn't you just make it available, MTurk or not. You'd be presuming the rules behind social programs are logical, they are not, they are designed by committee and as such can be haphazard and often illogical. Making money can actually hurt you if you're on the safety net because there's a hole where you're job would disqualify you for benefits that could exceed what the job would pay. Of course that varies state by state so there's no single answer to the question. So until the safety net is more logical and lets you work without putting you in a worse position, then it's rational to simply not allow jobs that don't pay a living wage. Many have proposed a basic income to avoid this problem.

burntsushi 13y ago
> because it's better for us all Or so authoritarians would have us believe.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  Believe what you like, others will too, and the majority will choose.
  - burntsushi 13y ago
    A comment so insightful that you could use it in response to anyone who disagrees with you! Kudos. But, yeah, I get it. You're an authoritarian through and through, and you want to make sure others know who's boss.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
mindcrime 13y ago
That's rather the point of democracy, to remove choice about some things from the individual and make them together because it's better for us all despite what any one individual might choose. Which is exactly why the phrase "tyranny of the majority" exists, and why "democracy" is just a euphemism for "mob rule" at the end of the day.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  And as Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
  - burntsushi 13y ago
    He also said, "I propose that 100,000 degenerate Britons should be forcibly sterilized and others put in labour camps to halt the decline of the British race." And this, "I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gases: gases can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected." And just in case you couldn't tell, he confirms his inner monster: "I think a curse should rest on me — because I love this war. I know it's smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment — and yet — I can't help it — I enjoy every second of it." So what, am I supposed to look up to this man and accept that Mob Rule is the best way to govern just because he says so? But whatever man, people will just keep believing what they're believing. But at the end of the day, those who would use violence to enact their own ends will continue doing so.
    - gnaritas 13y ago
      You'd rather the minority rule? You have some fantastic idea for government that doesn't involve pissing off anyone? You whine about mob rule and democracy as if it's evil or something when it is in fact the best form of government we've figured out yet, despite it's flaws. What the hell is wrong with you? Are you some wackjob hiding in a bunker somewhere plotting the downfall of the government?
icebraining 13y ago
You'd be presuming the rules behind social programs are logical, they are not, they are designed by committee and as such can be haphazard and often illogical. The same can be said about labour laws, including minimum wage; by that argument, any discussion on policy change is irrelevant. And some social programs do paint a better picture, such as the EITC[1]. Besides, my argument is more general than whatever US social programs happen to be in place, since I'm not even from the US or living there. So until the safety net is more logical and lets you work without putting you in a worse position, then it's rational to simply not allow jobs that don't pay a living wage. And maybe I would agree with you if I was a labour legislator but had no power on safety net policies. But since my (and, I assume, your) power to change any of them is the same, I don't see how is that relevant.

burntsushi 13y ago

> because it's better for us all Or so authoritarians would have us believe.

gnaritas 13y ago
Believe what you like, others will too, and the majority will choose.
- burntsushi 13y ago
  A comment so insightful that you could use it in response to anyone who disagrees with you! Kudos. But, yeah, I get it. You're an authoritarian through and through, and you want to make sure others know who's boss.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

mindcrime 13y ago

That's rather the point of democracy, to remove choice about some things from the individual and make them together because it's better for us all despite what any one individual might choose. Which is exactly why the phrase "tyranny of the majority" exists, and why "democracy" is just a euphemism for "mob rule" at the end of the day.

gnaritas 13y ago
And as Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
- burntsushi 13y ago
  He also said, "I propose that 100,000 degenerate Britons should be forcibly sterilized and others put in labour camps to halt the decline of the British race." And this, "I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gases: gases can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected." And just in case you couldn't tell, he confirms his inner monster: "I think a curse should rest on me — because I love this war. I know it's smashing and shattering the lives of thousands every moment — and yet — I can't help it — I enjoy every second of it." So what, am I supposed to look up to this man and accept that Mob Rule is the best way to govern just because he says so? But whatever man, people will just keep believing what they're believing. But at the end of the day, those who would use violence to enact their own ends will continue doing so.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    You'd rather the minority rule? You have some fantastic idea for government that doesn't involve pissing off anyone? You whine about mob rule and democracy as if it's evil or something when it is in fact the best form of government we've figured out yet, despite it's flaws. What the hell is wrong with you? Are you some wackjob hiding in a bunker somewhere plotting the downfall of the government?

icebraining 13y ago

You'd be presuming the rules behind social programs are logical, they are not, they are designed by committee and as such can be haphazard and often illogical. The same can be said about labour laws, including minimum wage; by that argument, any discussion on policy change is irrelevant. And some social programs do paint a better picture, such as the EITC[1]. Besides, my argument is more general than whatever US social programs happen to be in place, since I'm not even from the US or living there. So until the safety net is more logical and lets you work without putting you in a worse position, then it's rational to simply not allow jobs that don't pay a living wage. And maybe I would agree with you if I was a labour legislator but had no power on safety net policies. But since my (and, I assume, your) power to change any of them is the same, I don't see how is that relevant.