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So I see two sorts of comments here: * The article is invalid because I find the author's website hard to read. This is the ad-hominem fallacy and is not at a

by nathanb 13y ago

So I see two sorts of comments here: * The article is invalid because I find the author's website hard to read. This is the ad-hominem fallacy and is not at all relevant to the correctness of his point. * Don't blame the web designer, blame X What is the role of a web designer? To design (hence the name) the experience of the user on the web (again, hence the name). The experience on the Esquire mobile site is very poorly designed. If higher-ups request more-visible ads and higher conversion rates for the app, there are ways to funnel this traffic without making the site difficult or impossible to use on a mobile device. This is the job of a web designer. (If higher-ups are mandating the design itself, they have assumed the role of web designer and relegated the titular designer to simply a web design implementor). This mobile website is poorly designed. Thus, by definition, it's the fault of the web designer. And nothing is going to change with finger-pointing or blame-passing or the victim mentality so blatantly evident in this comment thread.

mmanfrin 13y ago
This is the ad-hominem fallacy and is not at all relevant to the correctness of his point. I don't think it's an ad-hominem to critique design of the site critiquing anothers' design.
- tedsanders 13y ago
  It sort of is. If I say George Bush is stupid, and you reply that I'm stupid, you haven't really refuted my point. Though maybe if I say George Bush should recycle, and you reply that I don't recycle, you've indirectly challenged my point by bringing attention to my contradictory hypocrisy. Hmm.
  - talmand 13y ago
    Saying you're stupid for calling someone else stupid can sometimes be a proper response. I think you have to state why you think the person is stupid and for it to be a valid reason to avoid the response. Sort of like you did with the recycle version of the statement.
  - mmanfrin 13y ago
    Wrong analogy. It's like someone wearing a trashbag telling you you have no style, and someone pointing out that trash-bag-guy has no style either, so his opinion of what looks good is called in to question.
  - nathanb 13y ago
    Your second example is a fallacy of circumstance. The virtues of recycling should be examined on their own merits, not based on how well an individual adheres to them. I can provide empirical, qualitative reasons why recycling saves energy. Does the fact that I chucked a glass bottle into a trash can invalidate these reasons? No, it just makes me a hypocrite. It calls my character into question, but my facts stand apart from that. Thus, it is still an ad-hominem argument.
talmand 13y ago
Your description of a web designer's job is pretty good, your expectations of that web designer's ability to control design decisions is rather unrealistically high. Of course, you toss out that attempt at salvation by implying that if someone higher up the chain dictates design changes then they become the designer but then I find that just as offensive as the author's original blame of the designer. You are saying anyone who makes design decisions is a web designer and I fully disagree with you there, because you are implying that anyone can be a web designer. A web designer is not someone that makes design decisions based on anything but design principles to only toss it downward to some peon with crayons to take care of. We don't know the story here, maybe the web designer is to blame or maybe not. Plus, the popup is an usability problem, not a design problem.
shawnreilly 13y ago
From my Experience, Good Design and a good User Experience do not always go hand in hand. I've met Designers that were awesome at Designing Stuff, but did not really have any interest in User Experience at all. I've also met Designers that were good at both (which is what I strive for). In some sense, it may come down to what roles and responsibilities you assign to the Designer, how many Designers you have, and how that particular organization works. Generally speaking, bigger organizations tend to have more moving components, which means you may end up with multiple people fulfilling multiple roles. In this type of environment, it's possible that the people involved loose sight of the overall Project, instead focusing on their individual components. This could explain how you end up with a poor User Experience, even with a team of great Designers. Blame it on Management. (hehehe)
- hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
  > I've met Designers that were awesome at Designing Stuff, but did not really have any interest in User Experience at all. Those are artists (photoshop pilots, pixel pushers), not designers. Unfortunately the term is so banalized it lost it's meaning, but strictly: Design (noun): a specification of an object, manifested by an agent, intended to accomplish goals, in a particular environment, using a set of primitive components, satisfying a set of requirements, subject to constraints If it's not solving a problem, it's not a design solution. That includes providing the expected/desired experience to the user, which is often the case.

by nathanb 13y ago

mmanfrin 13y ago

This is the ad-hominem fallacy and is not at all relevant to the correctness of his point. I don't think it's an ad-hominem to critique design of the site critiquing anothers' design.

tedsanders 13y ago
It sort of is. If I say George Bush is stupid, and you reply that I'm stupid, you haven't really refuted my point. Though maybe if I say George Bush should recycle, and you reply that I don't recycle, you've indirectly challenged my point by bringing attention to my contradictory hypocrisy. Hmm.
- talmand 13y ago
  Saying you're stupid for calling someone else stupid can sometimes be a proper response. I think you have to state why you think the person is stupid and for it to be a valid reason to avoid the response. Sort of like you did with the recycle version of the statement.
- mmanfrin 13y ago
  Wrong analogy. It's like someone wearing a trashbag telling you you have no style, and someone pointing out that trash-bag-guy has no style either, so his opinion of what looks good is called in to question.
- nathanb 13y ago
  Your second example is a fallacy of circumstance. The virtues of recycling should be examined on their own merits, not based on how well an individual adheres to them. I can provide empirical, qualitative reasons why recycling saves energy. Does the fact that I chucked a glass bottle into a trash can invalidate these reasons? No, it just makes me a hypocrite. It calls my character into question, but my facts stand apart from that. Thus, it is still an ad-hominem argument.

talmand 13y ago

Your description of a web designer's job is pretty good, your expectations of that web designer's ability to control design decisions is rather unrealistically high. Of course, you toss out that attempt at salvation by implying that if someone higher up the chain dictates design changes then they become the designer but then I find that just as offensive as the author's original blame of the designer. You are saying anyone who makes design decisions is a web designer and I fully disagree with you there, because you are implying that anyone can be a web designer. A web designer is not someone that makes design decisions based on anything but design principles to only toss it downward to some peon with crayons to take care of. We don't know the story here, maybe the web designer is to blame or maybe not. Plus, the popup is an usability problem, not a design problem.

shawnreilly 13y ago

From my Experience, Good Design and a good User Experience do not always go hand in hand. I've met Designers that were awesome at Designing Stuff, but did not really have any interest in User Experience at all. I've also met Designers that were good at both (which is what I strive for). In some sense, it may come down to what roles and responsibilities you assign to the Designer, how many Designers you have, and how that particular organization works. Generally speaking, bigger organizations tend to have more moving components, which means you may end up with multiple people fulfilling multiple roles. In this type of environment, it's possible that the people involved loose sight of the overall Project, instead focusing on their individual components. This could explain how you end up with a poor User Experience, even with a team of great Designers. Blame it on Management. (hehehe)

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
> I've met Designers that were awesome at Designing Stuff, but did not really have any interest in User Experience at all. Those are artists (photoshop pilots, pixel pushers), not designers. Unfortunately the term is so banalized it lost it's meaning, but strictly: Design (noun): a specification of an object, manifested by an agent, intended to accomplish goals, in a particular environment, using a set of primitive components, satisfying a set of requirements, subject to constraints If it's not solving a problem, it's not a design solution. That includes providing the expected/desired experience to the user, which is often the case.