6 ms·

FBI Says It's Busted The Web's Biggest Anonymous Drug Black Market

43 points by tjaerv 13y ago

vezzy-fnord 13y ago
Of course the FBI have to be chauvinistic about it.
untog 13y ago
Weird that the title includes a quote that isn't actually contained in the article.
- tjaerv 13y ago
  The article has been edited since it was originally posted. The paragraph in question now reads: > “This is supposed to be some invisible black market bazaar. We made it visible,” says an FBI spokesperson, who asked not to be named. “When you interviewed [Ulbricht], he said he would never be arrested. But no one is beyond the reach of the FBI. We will find you.”
randyrand 13y ago
TL;DR "Basically he made a simple mistake and we were able to find him." I wonder what it was...
- adrr 13y ago
  He posted about SR on the bitcoin forums, even going so far to using his real email address on one of the postings.
swayvil 13y ago
said every secret police since the beginning of time
- jbigelow76 13y ago
  If the existence of the FBI is supposed to be a secret they're doing a poor job on that front.
  - readme 13y ago
    It's not.
  - fleitz 13y ago
    The stasi are generally consider 'secret police' and they were also official acknowledged by the state. I've always understood secret police to refer to the methods rather than official acknowledgement of their existence.
pessimizer 13y ago
More like "You can't make much more than 80MM resisting the FBI while living a normal, above-ground life within the United States, unless you avoid associating your real name with your criminal-conspiracy-in-development on a public messageboard."
- jonnathanson 13y ago
  Isn't $80MM the total amount Walter White made during the course of his meth career on Breaking Bad? Fun coincidence.
flatline 13y ago
We will find you. If you are high enough profile, and your crime happens to match the current set of prosecutorial priorities laid down by the administration, justice dept., etc., then we will find you. With reasonably high probability. > users migrate to other, smaller but similar anonymous black markets Not only will they find you, the FBI has clearly put an end to the online drug trade.
- readme 13y ago
  Even the FBI has to optimize their resources dude.
- fleitz 13y ago
  Indeed, the FBI has been so successful in the war on drugs, they are now actually able to keep drugs out of prisons.
  - readme 13y ago
    Did you bother to research the FBI or what it does before you spouted this nonsense?
    - fleitz 13y ago
      Yeah, I know what the FBI does, they are the people who pick through your trash in those big blue trucks. IIRC correctly they also invented the vaccum cleaner in the 50s because the director was getting his dress dirty cleaning the old fashioned way.
- gwern 13y ago
  > > users migrate to other, smaller but similar anonymous black markets They're not going to be very happy about it, though. They were on SR for a reason. With Atlantis shuttering the other week, that leaves just BMR (old, but full of scammers) and Sheep (less than a year old and tiny).
  - OvidNaso 13y ago
b6 13y ago
It's one of my shortcomings that I just cannot get into the mindset of an FBI agent who is happy about this. How do you keep wanting to go to work and investigating this kind of thing?
- DanBC 13y ago
  Some people[1] think drugs are bad, and want to stop people selling drugs. Some people think the other stuff sold on SR is bad, and want to stop people selling that other stuff. Some people just want criminals to pay the tax. [1] I strongly think that legalising drugs, and treating them as a public health not criminal justice issue would help a lot.
- 8_hours_ago 13y ago
  Regardless of the pros/cons of the war on drugs, I can definitely see why this would be super fun to work on as an investigator. It's an incredibly complex problem to identify someone who is using all available technology to remain anonymous. And once you actually found them, I imagine that you'd be pretty excited about it.
  - waps 13y ago
    The part where he paid $40k to kill that person for knowing him seems less fun.
- smacktoward 13y ago
  Because you're a law enforcement officer, and it's the law? Sure, it's a dumb law, but if you choose a career as a LEO you're not signing up to decide what the laws are. That's the legislature's job. Your job is to enforce the dumb ones along with the smart ones. It's like the scene at the end of The Untouchables, after we've watched Eliot Ness throw everything he has into fighting bootleggers for two hours. Someone runs up to him waving a newspaper announcing that Prohibition has been repealed and asks him what he's going to do now. And he looks at the paper and replies "I'm going to have a drink."
alexeisadeski3 13y ago
El Chapo to the FBI: "No you won't." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaqu%C3%ADn_Guzm%C3%A1n_Loera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaqu%C3%ADn_Guzm%C3%A1n_Loera
avty 13y ago
Insider trading is legal for politicians and the fat cats, but if you dare do it, FBI is onto you.
- zackkitzmiller 13y ago
  It's pretty close.
spodek 13y ago
> "You can't resist the FBI. We will find you." At last the drug war has been won! No similar site will ever be created and all the resources formerly spent fighting drugs will be returned to improving the lives of citizens. This is as great a sign of success as when we victoriously proclaimed "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq, and as assuredly as we have had peace since then in Iraq, we can look forward to as peaceful and drug-free an existence as when we enjoyed the peaceful, law-abiding, alcohol-free times of Prohibition. Resources well-spent. We can finally sleep well tonight under the FBI's benevolent watch.
- conductor 13y ago
  > At last the drug war has been won! They don't want to win, they want to continuously fight with it.
  - swombat 13y ago
    woosh
    - heyitsnick 13y ago
      If anything, the woosh would be for you. I'm sure conductor understood the irony of the statement.
      - vubuntu 13y ago
        You mean sarcasm , not irony, right? Irony would be that there is a news tomorrow to the effect " Half a dozen new web sites sprung up after Silk road bust and FBI is struggling this time to catch the perpetrators. They wised up from Silk Road's mistakes described in detail by FBI"
        heyitsnick 13y ago
        Nope, I meant irony. The word has multiple definitions. In its most popular - "the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect" - sarcasm is given as a synonym.
xradionut 13y ago
"You can't resist the FBI. We will find you." Unless you are a Wall Street insider and then we will gladly help the SEC harass your detractors. "Constitution? What constitution?"
lectrick 13y ago
It seems to me that the conversation out there is looking more and more like the nerds (tech folks) vs. the jocks (FBI) all over again. When will you learn that the nerds win in the end, jocks? :)
fennecfoxen 13y ago
That's not ominous at all.
MichaelGG 13y ago
Every single high-level FBI bust is always about the operator doing something really simple and dumb, then the FBI puffs its chest and acts all powerful. Like that article about the guy trying to extort poker players. The FBI agent admits she always wanted to be like they were on the TV show "CHiPS" and how they've got the hardest cybersquad available and will break you so better just 'fess up. In reality? Guy logged into his Gmail account from his house, and proceeded to blackmail via email. I mean, come on. Asking Google for an IP is now badass? Yet from the reading, hoo boy do they like busting down doors with guns out as if it was some criminal overload's lair. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/how-the-fbi-cracked-a-sextortion-plot-against-pro-poker-players/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/how-the-fbi-crack...
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Hubris has a place. Studies have found that swiftness/certainty of capture and punishment are far more effective at deterring crime than harshness of punishment. A message like, "We will catch you" isn't just about going on some power trip. It's a preemptive PR play.
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    The FBI press releases might be PR. Agents' actions (not just FBI, but local police to federal) from personal and other experience (where there's no publicity) seem to indicate a lot of them simply get off on the power. The intimidation is also used in personal confrontation to try to get the suspect to drop their rights and not wait for a lawyer or stay silent. That's why they love busting in with guns and telling you how much they know and how you better not "piss them off".
- josefresco 13y ago
  You are wrongfully downplaying the (probably) years of hard work by multiple people that goes into an investigation like this. Also, the suspect only needs to slip up once to be caught. A perfect 100% success rate in staying hidden is almost impossible.
frank_boyd 13y ago
> "You can't resist the FBI. We will find you." I thought it was "If your number is up, we will find you." The documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOnQ8CD3v4g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOnQ8CD3v4g
LukeHoersten 13y ago
Resistance is futile.
astangl 13y ago
Hmm, it makes you wonder if NSA help and parallel construction are in play here.

43 points by tjaerv 13y ago

vezzy-fnord 13y ago

Of course the FBI have to be chauvinistic about it.

untog 13y ago

Weird that the title includes a quote that isn't actually contained in the article.

tjaerv 13y ago
The article has been edited since it was originally posted. The paragraph in question now reads: > “This is supposed to be some invisible black market bazaar. We made it visible,” says an FBI spokesperson, who asked not to be named. “When you interviewed [Ulbricht], he said he would never be arrested. But no one is beyond the reach of the FBI. We will find you.”

randyrand 13y ago

TL;DR "Basically he made a simple mistake and we were able to find him." I wonder what it was...

adrr 13y ago
He posted about SR on the bitcoin forums, even going so far to using his real email address on one of the postings.

swayvil 13y ago

said every secret police since the beginning of time

jbigelow76 13y ago
If the existence of the FBI is supposed to be a secret they're doing a poor job on that front.
- readme 13y ago
  It's not.
- fleitz 13y ago
  The stasi are generally consider 'secret police' and they were also official acknowledged by the state. I've always understood secret police to refer to the methods rather than official acknowledgement of their existence.

pessimizer 13y ago

More like "You can't make much more than 80MM resisting the FBI while living a normal, above-ground life within the United States, unless you avoid associating your real name with your criminal-conspiracy-in-development on a public messageboard."

jonnathanson 13y ago
Isn't $80MM the total amount Walter White made during the course of his meth career on Breaking Bad? Fun coincidence.

flatline 13y ago

We will find you. If you are high enough profile, and your crime happens to match the current set of prosecutorial priorities laid down by the administration, justice dept., etc., then we will find you. With reasonably high probability. > users migrate to other, smaller but similar anonymous black markets Not only will they find you, the FBI has clearly put an end to the online drug trade.

readme 13y ago
Even the FBI has to optimize their resources dude.
fleitz 13y ago
Indeed, the FBI has been so successful in the war on drugs, they are now actually able to keep drugs out of prisons.
- readme 13y ago
  Did you bother to research the FBI or what it does before you spouted this nonsense?
  - fleitz 13y ago
    Yeah, I know what the FBI does, they are the people who pick through your trash in those big blue trucks. IIRC correctly they also invented the vaccum cleaner in the 50s because the director was getting his dress dirty cleaning the old fashioned way.
gwern 13y ago
> > users migrate to other, smaller but similar anonymous black markets They're not going to be very happy about it, though. They were on SR for a reason. With Atlantis shuttering the other week, that leaves just BMR (old, but full of scammers) and Sheep (less than a year old and tiny).
- OvidNaso 13y ago

b6 13y ago

It's one of my shortcomings that I just cannot get into the mindset of an FBI agent who is happy about this. How do you keep wanting to go to work and investigating this kind of thing?

DanBC 13y ago
Some people[1] think drugs are bad, and want to stop people selling drugs. Some people think the other stuff sold on SR is bad, and want to stop people selling that other stuff. Some people just want criminals to pay the tax. [1] I strongly think that legalising drugs, and treating them as a public health not criminal justice issue would help a lot.
8_hours_ago 13y ago
Regardless of the pros/cons of the war on drugs, I can definitely see why this would be super fun to work on as an investigator. It's an incredibly complex problem to identify someone who is using all available technology to remain anonymous. And once you actually found them, I imagine that you'd be pretty excited about it.
- waps 13y ago
  The part where he paid $40k to kill that person for knowing him seems less fun.
smacktoward 13y ago
Because you're a law enforcement officer, and it's the law? Sure, it's a dumb law, but if you choose a career as a LEO you're not signing up to decide what the laws are. That's the legislature's job. Your job is to enforce the dumb ones along with the smart ones. It's like the scene at the end of The Untouchables, after we've watched Eliot Ness throw everything he has into fighting bootleggers for two hours. Someone runs up to him waving a newspaper announcing that Prohibition has been repealed and asks him what he's going to do now. And he looks at the paper and replies "I'm going to have a drink."

alexeisadeski3 13y ago

El Chapo to the FBI: "No you won't." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaqu%C3%ADn_Guzm%C3%A1n_Loera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaqu%C3%ADn_Guzm%C3%A1n_Loera

avty 13y ago

Insider trading is legal for politicians and the fat cats, but if you dare do it, FBI is onto you.

zackkitzmiller 13y ago
It's pretty close.

spodek 13y ago

> "You can't resist the FBI. We will find you." At last the drug war has been won! No similar site will ever be created and all the resources formerly spent fighting drugs will be returned to improving the lives of citizens. This is as great a sign of success as when we victoriously proclaimed "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq, and as assuredly as we have had peace since then in Iraq, we can look forward to as peaceful and drug-free an existence as when we enjoyed the peaceful, law-abiding, alcohol-free times of Prohibition. Resources well-spent. We can finally sleep well tonight under the FBI's benevolent watch.

conductor 13y ago
> At last the drug war has been won! They don't want to win, they want to continuously fight with it.
- swombat 13y ago
  woosh
  - heyitsnick 13y ago
    If anything, the woosh would be for you. I'm sure conductor understood the irony of the statement.
    - vubuntu 13y ago
      You mean sarcasm , not irony, right? Irony would be that there is a news tomorrow to the effect " Half a dozen new web sites sprung up after Silk road bust and FBI is struggling this time to catch the perpetrators. They wised up from Silk Road's mistakes described in detail by FBI"
      - heyitsnick 13y ago
        Nope, I meant irony. The word has multiple definitions. In its most popular - "the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect" - sarcasm is given as a synonym.

xradionut 13y ago

"You can't resist the FBI. We will find you." Unless you are a Wall Street insider and then we will gladly help the SEC harass your detractors. "Constitution? What constitution?"

lectrick 13y ago

It seems to me that the conversation out there is looking more and more like the nerds (tech folks) vs. the jocks (FBI) all over again. When will you learn that the nerds win in the end, jocks? :)

fennecfoxen 13y ago

That's not ominous at all.

MichaelGG 13y ago

Every single high-level FBI bust is always about the operator doing something really simple and dumb, then the FBI puffs its chest and acts all powerful. Like that article about the guy trying to extort poker players. The FBI agent admits she always wanted to be like they were on the TV show "CHiPS" and how they've got the hardest cybersquad available and will break you so better just 'fess up. In reality? Guy logged into his Gmail account from his house, and proceeded to blackmail via email. I mean, come on. Asking Google for an IP is now badass? Yet from the reading, hoo boy do they like busting down doors with guns out as if it was some criminal overload's lair. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/how-the-fbi-cracked-a-sextortion-plot-against-pro-poker-players/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/04/how-the-fbi-crack...

sliverstorm 13y ago
Hubris has a place. Studies have found that swiftness/certainty of capture and punishment are far more effective at deterring crime than harshness of punishment. A message like, "We will catch you" isn't just about going on some power trip. It's a preemptive PR play.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  The FBI press releases might be PR. Agents' actions (not just FBI, but local police to federal) from personal and other experience (where there's no publicity) seem to indicate a lot of them simply get off on the power. The intimidation is also used in personal confrontation to try to get the suspect to drop their rights and not wait for a lawyer or stay silent. That's why they love busting in with guns and telling you how much they know and how you better not "piss them off".
josefresco 13y ago
You are wrongfully downplaying the (probably) years of hard work by multiple people that goes into an investigation like this. Also, the suspect only needs to slip up once to be caught. A perfect 100% success rate in staying hidden is almost impossible.

frank_boyd 13y ago

> "You can't resist the FBI. We will find you." I thought it was "If your number is up, we will find you." The documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOnQ8CD3v4g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOnQ8CD3v4g

LukeHoersten 13y ago

Resistance is futile.

astangl 13y ago

Hmm, it makes you wonder if NSA help and parallel construction are in play here.