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Agreed, I feel like by building things like this it just hampers all the work that is being built to replace flash. The best way to change things is to make it

Agreed, I feel like by building things like this it just hampers all the work that is being built to replace flash. The best way to change things is to make it so that learning HTML5 and JavaScript becomes worth it, and that is easily done by just not supporting flash.

robmcm 13y ago
I think this is aimed at legacy support, I don't think anyone would target this as a supported runtime. Ironically most of the useful flash applications/games etc wouldn't run on these runtimes as they are using features not supported in HTML5. This sort of thing works best for crappy adverts and banners, which no one really wants anyway. This is highlighted by the fact the big competitor (Gordon?) is developed by the Google ad sense team ;)
- Tloewald 13y ago
  If it were widely adopted, people would target it. If it's not widely adopted, who cares?
  - robmcm 13y ago
    It's adopted by having a HTML 5 compliant browser, at which point you would just use HTML 5 tools. Unless you really loved the flash IDE which I guess some people do...
    - Sanddancer 13y ago
      There's also a lot of flash out there generated through things like libming that people either can't or won't rewrite to use html5.
      - robmcm 13y ago
        I expect there will be a new lib to replace that, I guess this would bridge the gap for those who don't update. I doubt ming would target this runtime though, would be very inefficient.
- willvarfar 13y ago
  What features are they using that html5 doesn't cover? I'm genuinely curious, as I do a bit of html5/webgl and formerly did a lot of flash/haxe, so I'm wondering what I missed...
  - robmcm 13y ago
    Lets say DRM video for arguments sake. However there are other things, like webcam/device support, some audio stuff, filters that may be very slow on a canvas and hard to run in WebGL inside other panes (overlays etc).
    - X4 13y ago
      I'm glad DRM isn't globally accepted by the W3C Consortium, but I'm sure beneficiaries like Google, Adobe and Microsoft heavily try to subvert that state.
      - willvarfar 13y ago
        But Flash DRM is, like all DRM in the face of a hostile end-user, ineffective. Nobody has any problems using the plethora of tools that strip DRM from Flash video, right?
        robmcm 13y ago
        If it appeases the rights holders into allowing their video on the web I'm happy. Users want to watch videos, they don't care about the technology under the hood. Do you ever try and watch youtube videos that say, "this video isn't available on your device"...
  - robmcm 13y ago
    Just saw this answer to another question about the technology: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6558539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6558539 I guess you could ask him for more details.
- nthitz 13y ago
  According to this Shumway was based on Gordon. http://www.geek.com/news/mozillas-shumway-project-replaces-flash-player-with-a-virtual-machine-1494329/ http://www.geek.com/news/mozillas-shumway-project-replaces-f... And you remember who Gordon Shumway is right? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(TV_series) )
CmonDev 13y ago
So the best way to change things is to leave no choice? Dictator-style?

robmcm 13y ago

I think this is aimed at legacy support, I don't think anyone would target this as a supported runtime. Ironically most of the useful flash applications/games etc wouldn't run on these runtimes as they are using features not supported in HTML5. This sort of thing works best for crappy adverts and banners, which no one really wants anyway. This is highlighted by the fact the big competitor (Gordon?) is developed by the Google ad sense team ;)

Tloewald 13y ago
If it were widely adopted, people would target it. If it's not widely adopted, who cares?
- robmcm 13y ago
  It's adopted by having a HTML 5 compliant browser, at which point you would just use HTML 5 tools. Unless you really loved the flash IDE which I guess some people do...
  - Sanddancer 13y ago
    There's also a lot of flash out there generated through things like libming that people either can't or won't rewrite to use html5.
    - robmcm 13y ago
      I expect there will be a new lib to replace that, I guess this would bridge the gap for those who don't update. I doubt ming would target this runtime though, would be very inefficient.
willvarfar 13y ago
What features are they using that html5 doesn't cover? I'm genuinely curious, as I do a bit of html5/webgl and formerly did a lot of flash/haxe, so I'm wondering what I missed...
- robmcm 13y ago
  Lets say DRM video for arguments sake. However there are other things, like webcam/device support, some audio stuff, filters that may be very slow on a canvas and hard to run in WebGL inside other panes (overlays etc).
  - X4 13y ago
    I'm glad DRM isn't globally accepted by the W3C Consortium, but I'm sure beneficiaries like Google, Adobe and Microsoft heavily try to subvert that state.
    - willvarfar 13y ago
      But Flash DRM is, like all DRM in the face of a hostile end-user, ineffective. Nobody has any problems using the plethora of tools that strip DRM from Flash video, right?
      - robmcm 13y ago
        If it appeases the rights holders into allowing their video on the web I'm happy. Users want to watch videos, they don't care about the technology under the hood. Do you ever try and watch youtube videos that say, "this video isn't available on your device"...
- robmcm 13y ago
  Just saw this answer to another question about the technology: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6558539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6558539 I guess you could ask him for more details.
nthitz 13y ago
According to this Shumway was based on Gordon. http://www.geek.com/news/mozillas-shumway-project-replaces-flash-player-with-a-virtual-machine-1494329/ http://www.geek.com/news/mozillas-shumway-project-replaces-f... And you remember who Gordon Shumway is right? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(TV_series) )

CmonDev 13y ago

So the best way to change things is to leave no choice? Dictator-style?