7 ms·

NSA Storing Internet Data, Social Networking Data, on Pretty Much Everybody

97 points by frrp 13y ago

ktr100 13y ago
So this government shutdown seems to have no effect on the NSA. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/the-nsa-deserves-a-perman_b_4017195.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/the-nsa-deserve...
- samstave 13y ago
  I'm ready to shutdown my taxpaying status to this utter joke of a government.
- mapt 13y ago
  Did it? http://www.northeastern.edu/research/raf/files/NSA-Govt-Shutdown.pdf http://www.northeastern.edu/research/raf/files/NSA-Govt-Shut...
  - brokenparser 13y ago
    Is there a mirror for this?
hrasyid 13y ago
Thanks, captain!
nwzpaperman 13y ago
Some people owe me up-votes for all those down-votes they gave me six+ months ago when I stated one must assume a zero privacy environment when engaging technology today. I'm just happy I knew what the Internet was like before mosaic and the www emerged. It seems so quaint now. Edit - How long until people ditch their Black Amex cards and go back to cash for some privacy restored? A short decade ago it wasn't so uncommon to carry a few bucks. How many people really want banks and the government knowing all of their consumption habits in addition to the timing of their consumption? All in the name of fraud prevention! Just carry a few bucks and no worries again!
- dlinder 13y ago
  Data Mining Guy won't put hamburgers on his CC, says insurance companies will eventually retaliate: http://www.economist.com/node/21556263 http://www.economist.com/node/21556263
  - CoreDumpling 13y ago
    Can't we turn the tables on them if we know what's going on? 1) Take out life insurance policy. 2) Pay with credit card at McDonald's and the bar. 3) Get a bunch of speeding tickets. 4) Sell policy to a data mining firm that hopes I die soon. 5) Profit!
- sanxiyn 13y ago
  I do most of my small transactions in cash. Is this in any way unusual? Is this American thing?
- frank_boyd 13y ago
  > go back to cash What do you mean, go back to cash? Not everybody was OK with their transactions being stored and monitored.
samstave 13y ago
The idea of Total Informational Awareness has been shouted about for years. there is only ONE next step: stand up against the NSA in entirety. We must make a move that is truly going to force reform.
- nwzpaperman 13y ago
  If people believed the NSA was running the free porn sites, there would be mutiny fo sho! Edit - No one cares until they're hit where it hurts.
  - samstave 13y ago
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/116008498/Cover-up-5200-Pentagon-Pedophiles-Caught-Downloading-Kiddie-Porn http://www.scribd.com/doc/116008498/Cover-up-5200-Pentagon-P...
samstave 13y ago
Alexander must be indicted immediately for anyone to regain ANY trust in the NSA. Alexander is a criminal, however, so is Holder, Pelosi, Cheney, Bush, Powell, Obama, etc etc etc etc....
jonnybgood 13y ago
> We have to assume that the NSA has everyone who uses electronic communications under constant surveillance. We don't have to assume anything except that which is provided by evidence. If you have the evidence, then allow it to present itself. Assumption leads to conspiracy theory and inaccurate information. I really don't think that's what this cause really needs. Is it just me or does Bruce Schneier's posts read more like propaganda than journalism? It's pretty awful and I'm surprised HN is eating it up. He tip toes on fear mongering through exaggeration, e.g. in OP getting people more hyped up and fearful of the NSA because they're tracking EVERYONE... except, it's only an assumption. Calls to action should not be based on assumptions.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  Oh brother, its as if some people have learned nothing from the last 6 months (or are actively shilling... apparently you only comment on NSA stories). When it comes to your personal privacy and security, you must assume that anything that is reasonably possible is being carried out by your adversaries. The recent leaks prove that the NSA will do absolutely anything within its power to further its goal of total information awareness. All of the NSA revelations could have been predicted (and were predicted) by anyone with some technological skill and a little bit of foresight. If you wait until proof is presented to you, you have already lost; your privacy and security have already been compromised. The game is to think ahead and protect yourself from all possible current and future attacks. There are some people who's very freedom depends on such foresight.
  - csandreasen 13y ago
    In another context jonnybgood might instead be called a "skeptic" or perhaps even "capable of applying critical thinking skills" rather than dismissed as a "shill". Instead of mocking him for not paying attention over the last 6 months, you should go back and examine all of the leaked documents. You'll note that they speak quite a bit to the capabilities of the NSA, but don't reveal much about who they're targeting, why and what the ultimate goal of targeting would be. If you disagree, I challenge you to actual provide a leaked document that shows the NSA is specifically targeting ordinary citizens like the GP was calling for, rather than a secondary article from Greenwald, Schneier, etc., that makes broad assertions that because a spying agency with collecting foreign intelligence has the technical capability to conduct the most invasive possible infractions on the privacy of people it is not charged with collecting against, they must indeed be doing so. Your armed local police force has the technical capability of detaining citizens indiscriminately without regard to whether or not they violated the law, then summarily executing them without trial. That doesn't mean that's their job.
simgidacav 13y ago
Anybody looked at http://www.dailydot.com/politics/flowchart-avoid-nsa-online/ http://www.dailydot.com/politics/flowchart-avoid-nsa-online/ (linked by Schneier in the blog post)? Isn't that a little drastic? The fact that my 4096-bit-gpg-encrypted mail has been stored by them doesn't mean my communication is pwned: the idea with strong encryption is exactly you cannot trust the transmission channel! And besides it doesn't take in account OTR for chat.
- SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
  > Isn't that a little drastic? The fact that my 4096-bit-gpg-encrypted mail has been stored by them doesn't mean my communication is pwned The'll store it until they can pwn it. That's what the huge data center is for.
- jackgavigan 13y ago
  > The fact that my 4096-bit-gpg-encrypted mail has been stored by them doesn't mean my communication is pwned... Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. However, if they ever manage to get hold of your secret key (or crack the encryption scheme you're using), they'll be able to decrypt and read all your old email. How safe is your secret key? Is it on a computer than you connect to the Internet with? How do you know it hasn't already been purloined by malware? Have you ever left it alone at home or in a hotel room? Or carried it through an international border? As for GPG, how do you know the NSA haven't been multiplying every single number together with every other single number for the past forty years to build a gigantic rainbow table that they just have to grep through to find the factors of any number? $ grep 4294967296 products.txt | head -20 65536 x 65536 = 4294967296 131072 x 32768 = 4294967296 262144 x 16384 = 4294967296 524288 x 8192 = 4294967296 1048576 x 4096 = 4294967296 2097152 x 2048 = 4294967296 4194304 x 1024 = 4294967296 8388608 x 512 = 4294967296 16777216 x 256 = 4294967296 33554432 x 128 = 4294967296 67108864 x 64 = 4294967296 134217728 x 32 = 4294967296 268435456 x 16 = 4294967296 536870912 x 8 = 4294967296 1073741824 x 4 = 4294967296 2147483648 x 2 = 4294967296 4294967296 x 2 = 8589934592 4294967296 x 3 = 12884901888 4294967296 x 4 = 17179869184 4294967296 x 5 = 21474836480 $ Are you paranoid yet? ;-) PS: Yes, yes, I know... sigh
return0 13y ago
So, where is it stored?
czr80 13y ago
The NSA probably is building profiles on many people. But so are Google, Facebook, etc. The real problem is not the NSA (well, not just the NSA) - it's the inherent design of the internet. We're trying to live private lives on public networks, and we're going to have to go through some serious growing pains before that is resolved.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  Facebook might be just as black-hearted about your privacy, but thankfully they don't have the heads of the IRS or DEA on speed dial.

97 points by frrp 13y ago

So this government shutdown seems to have no effect on the NSA. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/the-nsa-deserves-a-perman_b_4017195.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/the-nsa-deserve...

samstave 13y ago
I'm ready to shutdown my taxpaying status to this utter joke of a government.
mapt 13y ago
Did it? http://www.northeastern.edu/research/raf/files/NSA-Govt-Shutdown.pdf http://www.northeastern.edu/research/raf/files/NSA-Govt-Shut...
- brokenparser 13y ago
  Is there a mirror for this?

hrasyid 13y ago

Thanks, captain!

nwzpaperman 13y ago

Some people owe me up-votes for all those down-votes they gave me six+ months ago when I stated one must assume a zero privacy environment when engaging technology today. I'm just happy I knew what the Internet was like before mosaic and the www emerged. It seems so quaint now. Edit - How long until people ditch their Black Amex cards and go back to cash for some privacy restored? A short decade ago it wasn't so uncommon to carry a few bucks. How many people really want banks and the government knowing all of their consumption habits in addition to the timing of their consumption? All in the name of fraud prevention! Just carry a few bucks and no worries again!

dlinder 13y ago
Data Mining Guy won't put hamburgers on his CC, says insurance companies will eventually retaliate: http://www.economist.com/node/21556263 http://www.economist.com/node/21556263
- CoreDumpling 13y ago
  Can't we turn the tables on them if we know what's going on? 1) Take out life insurance policy. 2) Pay with credit card at McDonald's and the bar. 3) Get a bunch of speeding tickets. 4) Sell policy to a data mining firm that hopes I die soon. 5) Profit!
sanxiyn 13y ago
I do most of my small transactions in cash. Is this in any way unusual? Is this American thing?
frank_boyd 13y ago
> go back to cash What do you mean, go back to cash? Not everybody was OK with their transactions being stored and monitored.

samstave 13y ago

The idea of Total Informational Awareness has been shouted about for years. there is only ONE next step: stand up against the NSA in entirety. We must make a move that is truly going to force reform.

nwzpaperman 13y ago
If people believed the NSA was running the free porn sites, there would be mutiny fo sho! Edit - No one cares until they're hit where it hurts.
- samstave 13y ago
  http://www.scribd.com/doc/116008498/Cover-up-5200-Pentagon-Pedophiles-Caught-Downloading-Kiddie-Porn http://www.scribd.com/doc/116008498/Cover-up-5200-Pentagon-P...

samstave 13y ago

Alexander must be indicted immediately for anyone to regain ANY trust in the NSA. Alexander is a criminal, however, so is Holder, Pelosi, Cheney, Bush, Powell, Obama, etc etc etc etc....

jonnybgood 13y ago

> We have to assume that the NSA has everyone who uses electronic communications under constant surveillance. We don't have to assume anything except that which is provided by evidence. If you have the evidence, then allow it to present itself. Assumption leads to conspiracy theory and inaccurate information. I really don't think that's what this cause really needs. Is it just me or does Bruce Schneier's posts read more like propaganda than journalism? It's pretty awful and I'm surprised HN is eating it up. He tip toes on fear mongering through exaggeration, e.g. in OP getting people more hyped up and fearful of the NSA because they're tracking EVERYONE... except, it's only an assumption. Calls to action should not be based on assumptions.

hackinthebochs 13y ago
Oh brother, its as if some people have learned nothing from the last 6 months (or are actively shilling... apparently you only comment on NSA stories). When it comes to your personal privacy and security, you must assume that anything that is reasonably possible is being carried out by your adversaries. The recent leaks prove that the NSA will do absolutely anything within its power to further its goal of total information awareness. All of the NSA revelations could have been predicted (and were predicted) by anyone with some technological skill and a little bit of foresight. If you wait until proof is presented to you, you have already lost; your privacy and security have already been compromised. The game is to think ahead and protect yourself from all possible current and future attacks. There are some people who's very freedom depends on such foresight.
- csandreasen 13y ago
  In another context jonnybgood might instead be called a "skeptic" or perhaps even "capable of applying critical thinking skills" rather than dismissed as a "shill". Instead of mocking him for not paying attention over the last 6 months, you should go back and examine all of the leaked documents. You'll note that they speak quite a bit to the capabilities of the NSA, but don't reveal much about who they're targeting, why and what the ultimate goal of targeting would be. If you disagree, I challenge you to actual provide a leaked document that shows the NSA is specifically targeting ordinary citizens like the GP was calling for, rather than a secondary article from Greenwald, Schneier, etc., that makes broad assertions that because a spying agency with collecting foreign intelligence has the technical capability to conduct the most invasive possible infractions on the privacy of people it is not charged with collecting against, they must indeed be doing so. Your armed local police force has the technical capability of detaining citizens indiscriminately without regard to whether or not they violated the law, then summarily executing them without trial. That doesn't mean that's their job.

simgidacav 13y ago

Anybody looked at http://www.dailydot.com/politics/flowchart-avoid-nsa-online/ http://www.dailydot.com/politics/flowchart-avoid-nsa-online/ (linked by Schneier in the blog post)? Isn't that a little drastic? The fact that my 4096-bit-gpg-encrypted mail has been stored by them doesn't mean my communication is pwned: the idea with strong encryption is exactly you cannot trust the transmission channel! And besides it doesn't take in account OTR for chat.

SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
> Isn't that a little drastic? The fact that my 4096-bit-gpg-encrypted mail has been stored by them doesn't mean my communication is pwned The'll store it until they can pwn it. That's what the huge data center is for.
jackgavigan 13y ago
> The fact that my 4096-bit-gpg-encrypted mail has been stored by them doesn't mean my communication is pwned... Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. However, if they ever manage to get hold of your secret key (or crack the encryption scheme you're using), they'll be able to decrypt and read all your old email. How safe is your secret key? Is it on a computer than you connect to the Internet with? How do you know it hasn't already been purloined by malware? Have you ever left it alone at home or in a hotel room? Or carried it through an international border? As for GPG, how do you know the NSA haven't been multiplying every single number together with every other single number for the past forty years to build a gigantic rainbow table that they just have to grep through to find the factors of any number? $ grep 4294967296 products.txt | head -20 65536 x 65536 = 4294967296 131072 x 32768 = 4294967296 262144 x 16384 = 4294967296 524288 x 8192 = 4294967296 1048576 x 4096 = 4294967296 2097152 x 2048 = 4294967296 4194304 x 1024 = 4294967296 8388608 x 512 = 4294967296 16777216 x 256 = 4294967296 33554432 x 128 = 4294967296 67108864 x 64 = 4294967296 134217728 x 32 = 4294967296 268435456 x 16 = 4294967296 536870912 x 8 = 4294967296 1073741824 x 4 = 4294967296 2147483648 x 2 = 4294967296 4294967296 x 2 = 8589934592 4294967296 x 3 = 12884901888 4294967296 x 4 = 17179869184 4294967296 x 5 = 21474836480 $ Are you paranoid yet? ;-) PS: Yes, yes, I know... sigh

return0 13y ago

So, where is it stored?

czr80 13y ago

The NSA probably is building profiles on many people. But so are Google, Facebook, etc. The real problem is not the NSA (well, not just the NSA) - it's the inherent design of the internet. We're trying to live private lives on public networks, and we're going to have to go through some serious growing pains before that is resolved.

Zigurd 13y ago
Facebook might be just as black-hearted about your privacy, but thankfully they don't have the heads of the IRS or DEA on speed dial.