4 ms·

I agree that even if millions claim that have been abducted this is not solid proof but I think that the main reason for the lack of solid proofs is the impact

by givan 13y ago

I agree that even if millions claim that have been abducted this is not solid proof but I think that the main reason for the lack of solid proofs is the impact of such proofs on the human society. Also this is subject is very taboo, most people reject the subject immediately as ridiculous and compare it to fairies and ghosts. Maybe they are afraid, closed minded or really belive we are alone in this vast universe.

krapp 13y ago
>Maybe they are afraid, closed minded or really belive we are alone in this vast universe. You're asserting false dichotomies. The universe may be teeming with life, but that still wouldn't lend any credence to the scenario of alien abduction. You don't have to be afraid or close-minded to doubt it, you just have to be rational. It isn't proof, simply because it's entirely subjective. It exists inside people's minds.
- givan 13y ago
  >Maybe they are afraid, closed minded or really belive we are alone in this vast universe I was trying to find an explanation for the immediate rejection of the subject as silly. > It exists inside people's minds. The strange thing is that millions have the same thing in their minds, could this be a collective mental illness? but why do all of them report the same things and have the same details? If you read Jacobs reports you will see that many people that never met experienced similar events, how can this be explained? You could at least see read some of the reports or see some of the "non" evidence before rejecting it as silly.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    > "I was trying to find an explanation for the immediate rejection of the subject as silly." "Space is big", "boy who cried wolf", or a combination of both.
    - givan 13y ago
      So you reject the posibility with the argument that the space is big? the vastness of space says nothing about life density or travel capabilities of advanced civilations also we know so little about the structure of the universe. But I don't understand the ridicule and lack of arguments, I fell like I'm in 1400 saying that the earth is round. Also why the hate and downvotes?
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        I am saying people scoff at the idea because space is big. Come back with actual evidence and the off the cuff dismissal will stop. (though even then, expect some resistance since UFOists have been crying wolf so often)
        givan 13y ago
        The funny thing is that I say the same things to a religious friend, how can you belive in all those stories without proof? I don't think we can compare the two but they are very similar from this point of view, lack of evidence. It's true that there is no real public evidence, no flesh and bone alien or goverment confirmation but I think the main difference from religion is that there are all kind of information bits that seem to support it, the sexual experiments on abductees and very similar details they provide in their stories still don't have any other explanation to disprove it, just read Jacobs reports or see his video presentations, remember that he has a Ph.D and years of research on this so you can't compare him to a conspiracy nut on the internet. Also there is the impact on society of such discovery, the world would literally panic, most people will interpret this in all kind of apocaliptic ways. So the most credible argument on the lack of evidence is that human society is not ready to accept the fact that they are not alone, people rejected throughout history the ideea that they are not the center of the universe so this will be very hard to accept.
        jlgreco 13y ago
        The most credible explanation for the lack of evidence is simply that no evidence has been found. You are literally working science backwards, making a perversion of the scientific process. This very literally is what many religious people do when attempting to reconcile unscientific beliefs that they hold. (And it should therefore come as no surprise that all the bullshit you see Jacobs spewing is bullshit that religious charlatans have spewed as well, though with their own prefered twist of course. Seriously, they used this same shit to justify the 'Satanic ritual abuse' scare not many years ago. "They?" you ask? People with PhDs, you know, 'totally unquestionably not quacks' /s Yeah right.). Trust me, I'm not afraid of the concept of aliens. Far from it, I am damn near certain that we are not the only life the universe has ever seen. Other life visiting this planet though? Without evidence of it... there isn't evidence of it. No reason to make that any more complex than it is, since it is a pretty fucking simple concept. Now, this idea of people rejecting an idea because they are afraid of it? I am sorry, but you are clearly not very familiar with the history of religion and cults. People dig doomsday shit. They love to be frightened, they love reasons to believe their life won't matter soon (for whatever definition of 'matter' they are working off of), they love feeling irrelevant. I mean, you clearly dig this shit. What, you think you are special in this regard? This hypothesis of yours, that people "can't handle the truth, because it is too intense for them", but they totally dig Revelations? Give me a break.
  - krapp 13y ago
    >The strange thing is that millions have the same thing in their minds, could this be a collective mental illness? but why do all of them report the same things and have the same details? First, I don't know that it's necessarily true that "millions" of people have experienced this. But let me offer some evidence that at least to some degree this phenomenon whatever it is doesn't represent objective truth. There was a point when the majority of UFO sightings comprised of airships and not what we would recognize as spacecraft. It's telling that this occurred at a time when there was no popular archetype of what qualities a spaceship might have to have. The denizens of these craft were described as basically human looking, and some claimed to be from Mars (at a time when the possibility of intelligent life on Mars was commonly accepted as possibility.) One would expect an alien spacecraft to have some properties which are, well alien but all the descriptions i've seen and heard about don't often describe technology at a level far beyond the understanding of the time. Until it was scientifically proven impossible, many "aliens" appeared to be humans claiming to come from Mars or Venus. Prior to this, many of the phenomena associated now with alien abduction was associated with demonic possession. There were no spaceships or airships, but plenty of hoary beast-men in the woods and wicked things convincing wizards to swap wives with each other. My point being, the nature of this phenomenon never seems to rise above or to give information beyond what could be generated in the imagination of a single human being, and it seems to evolve as popular culture evolves. now we have to deal with the post-Lazar post-Roswell Post-Ancient Aliens/X-Files world of self-aware media irony in which it's claimed these aliens are responsible for practically every event and are behind every government and have portals everywhere and secret bases and yet despite the media and camera saturation... still nothing but mythology to account for any of it. Now you could say the demons were aliens, and the airship captains were just taking on an appearance which we could comprehend. But again, while that makes for an internally consistent narrative, it doesn't really prove anything. The face on mars turned out to be a trick of the light, and i'm sitting here near the end of 2013, and it turns out the Mayans didn't know shit about the future after all. meanwhile we do know there are such things as hallucinations, and hoaxes, and sleep paralysis, and any number of physiological and psychological phenomena to account for much if not all of the alien abduction scenario. What we don't have is strong, credible, independently verifiable publically credible evidence that aliens are abducting anyone. I'll tell you what it would look like - something undeniable and irrefutably alien. Not stories. Not weird lights someone's brother's cousin once heard someone saw one time. When they crash their saucer into the White House i'll maybe consider it. Until then, it's just faeries in the garden with updated costumes as far as i'm concerned.
jlgreco 13y ago
> or really belive we are alone in this vast universe. ...or understand that space is big. Really big.

by givan 13y ago

krapp 13y ago

>Maybe they are afraid, closed minded or really belive we are alone in this vast universe. You're asserting false dichotomies. The universe may be teeming with life, but that still wouldn't lend any credence to the scenario of alien abduction. You don't have to be afraid or close-minded to doubt it, you just have to be rational. It isn't proof, simply because it's entirely subjective. It exists inside people's minds.

givan 13y ago
>Maybe they are afraid, closed minded or really belive we are alone in this vast universe I was trying to find an explanation for the immediate rejection of the subject as silly. > It exists inside people's minds. The strange thing is that millions have the same thing in their minds, could this be a collective mental illness? but why do all of them report the same things and have the same details? If you read Jacobs reports you will see that many people that never met experienced similar events, how can this be explained? You could at least see read some of the reports or see some of the "non" evidence before rejecting it as silly.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  > "I was trying to find an explanation for the immediate rejection of the subject as silly." "Space is big", "boy who cried wolf", or a combination of both.
  - givan 13y ago
    So you reject the posibility with the argument that the space is big? the vastness of space says nothing about life density or travel capabilities of advanced civilations also we know so little about the structure of the universe. But I don't understand the ridicule and lack of arguments, I fell like I'm in 1400 saying that the earth is round. Also why the hate and downvotes?
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      I am saying people scoff at the idea because space is big. Come back with actual evidence and the off the cuff dismissal will stop. (though even then, expect some resistance since UFOists have been crying wolf so often)
      - givan 13y ago
        The funny thing is that I say the same things to a religious friend, how can you belive in all those stories without proof? I don't think we can compare the two but they are very similar from this point of view, lack of evidence. It's true that there is no real public evidence, no flesh and bone alien or goverment confirmation but I think the main difference from religion is that there are all kind of information bits that seem to support it, the sexual experiments on abductees and very similar details they provide in their stories still don't have any other explanation to disprove it, just read Jacobs reports or see his video presentations, remember that he has a Ph.D and years of research on this so you can't compare him to a conspiracy nut on the internet. Also there is the impact on society of such discovery, the world would literally panic, most people will interpret this in all kind of apocaliptic ways. So the most credible argument on the lack of evidence is that human society is not ready to accept the fact that they are not alone, people rejected throughout history the ideea that they are not the center of the universe so this will be very hard to accept.
        jlgreco 13y ago
        The most credible explanation for the lack of evidence is simply that no evidence has been found. You are literally working science backwards, making a perversion of the scientific process. This very literally is what many religious people do when attempting to reconcile unscientific beliefs that they hold. (And it should therefore come as no surprise that all the bullshit you see Jacobs spewing is bullshit that religious charlatans have spewed as well, though with their own prefered twist of course. Seriously, they used this same shit to justify the 'Satanic ritual abuse' scare not many years ago. "They?" you ask? People with PhDs, you know, 'totally unquestionably not quacks' /s Yeah right.). Trust me, I'm not afraid of the concept of aliens. Far from it, I am damn near certain that we are not the only life the universe has ever seen. Other life visiting this planet though? Without evidence of it... there isn't evidence of it. No reason to make that any more complex than it is, since it is a pretty fucking simple concept. Now, this idea of people rejecting an idea because they are afraid of it? I am sorry, but you are clearly not very familiar with the history of religion and cults. People dig doomsday shit. They love to be frightened, they love reasons to believe their life won't matter soon (for whatever definition of 'matter' they are working off of), they love feeling irrelevant. I mean, you clearly dig this shit. What, you think you are special in this regard? This hypothesis of yours, that people "can't handle the truth, because it is too intense for them", but they totally dig Revelations? Give me a break.
- krapp 13y ago
  >The strange thing is that millions have the same thing in their minds, could this be a collective mental illness? but why do all of them report the same things and have the same details? First, I don't know that it's necessarily true that "millions" of people have experienced this. But let me offer some evidence that at least to some degree this phenomenon whatever it is doesn't represent objective truth. There was a point when the majority of UFO sightings comprised of airships and not what we would recognize as spacecraft. It's telling that this occurred at a time when there was no popular archetype of what qualities a spaceship might have to have. The denizens of these craft were described as basically human looking, and some claimed to be from Mars (at a time when the possibility of intelligent life on Mars was commonly accepted as possibility.) One would expect an alien spacecraft to have some properties which are, well alien but all the descriptions i've seen and heard about don't often describe technology at a level far beyond the understanding of the time. Until it was scientifically proven impossible, many "aliens" appeared to be humans claiming to come from Mars or Venus. Prior to this, many of the phenomena associated now with alien abduction was associated with demonic possession. There were no spaceships or airships, but plenty of hoary beast-men in the woods and wicked things convincing wizards to swap wives with each other. My point being, the nature of this phenomenon never seems to rise above or to give information beyond what could be generated in the imagination of a single human being, and it seems to evolve as popular culture evolves. now we have to deal with the post-Lazar post-Roswell Post-Ancient Aliens/X-Files world of self-aware media irony in which it's claimed these aliens are responsible for practically every event and are behind every government and have portals everywhere and secret bases and yet despite the media and camera saturation... still nothing but mythology to account for any of it. Now you could say the demons were aliens, and the airship captains were just taking on an appearance which we could comprehend. But again, while that makes for an internally consistent narrative, it doesn't really prove anything. The face on mars turned out to be a trick of the light, and i'm sitting here near the end of 2013, and it turns out the Mayans didn't know shit about the future after all. meanwhile we do know there are such things as hallucinations, and hoaxes, and sleep paralysis, and any number of physiological and psychological phenomena to account for much if not all of the alien abduction scenario. What we don't have is strong, credible, independently verifiable publically credible evidence that aliens are abducting anyone. I'll tell you what it would look like - something undeniable and irrefutably alien. Not stories. Not weird lights someone's brother's cousin once heard someone saw one time. When they crash their saucer into the White House i'll maybe consider it. Until then, it's just faeries in the garden with updated costumes as far as i'm concerned.

jlgreco 13y ago

> or really belive we are alone in this vast universe. ...or understand that space is big. Really big.