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My post was about government and its structure. How the three branches balance each other and why Congress votes on the budget. The way the system works, I was

My post was about government and its structure. How the three branches balance each other and why Congress votes on the budget. The way the system works, I was trying to point it out. That's all. And this thread is about how intelligence agencies will be impacted. I posted on that under the main thread.

mikeash 13y ago
Well, there's how the government is supposed to work, and then there's how it actually does work. Unfortunately, this shutdown cannot be explained solely in terms of the former, and the latter is inextricably tied up with politics and partisanship. I would argue that addressing it all is implicitly political, and you stepped into it explicitly when saying that voting is the best we can do.
- ianstallings 13y ago
  So what do you propose we do exactly? What is your solution to this problem? I'd like to hear how we can do more than vote.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    First, I'd like to say that I reject the premise of the question, both in that I must necessarily have a solution to usefully discuss the problem, and the implication in "how we can do more than vote" that voting actually helps for this. I'm not one of those people who goes around saying both parties are the same and voting is pointless, but in this particular instance, where the entire government is being held up by a small group of legislators elected by a small minority of voters in particular geographic areas, I think it's true. I'm not sure there is a solution. We may simply be doomed. If there is, then I think it comes down to educating the voting public and convincing them to be more realistic about how politics should work. Beyond that, it would be good to reform the system somewhat so that a small number of people can't bring everything down. The filibuster needs to be made more difficult in the Senate, and the "majority of the majority" rule in the House ought to go away. However, that's a chicken-and-egg problem, since it's hard to get reforms through with the current state of things.
    - ianstallings 13y ago
      Nice retort. I like a lot of what you said there. One thing I would love to see the US government implement is a referendum system that would allow the public to vote on deadlocked issues like this. Congress would be behooved to work together more because if they didn't it would lead to a referendum and take the power of the vote out of their hands for the issue. It would have to be framed very narrowly and only happen when Congress is incapable of deciding as a whole on what to do. There's some holes in that of course but I think we could make it work.

mikeash 13y ago

Well, there's how the government is supposed to work, and then there's how it actually does work. Unfortunately, this shutdown cannot be explained solely in terms of the former, and the latter is inextricably tied up with politics and partisanship. I would argue that addressing it all is implicitly political, and you stepped into it explicitly when saying that voting is the best we can do.

ianstallings 13y ago
So what do you propose we do exactly? What is your solution to this problem? I'd like to hear how we can do more than vote.
- mikeash 13y ago
  First, I'd like to say that I reject the premise of the question, both in that I must necessarily have a solution to usefully discuss the problem, and the implication in "how we can do more than vote" that voting actually helps for this. I'm not one of those people who goes around saying both parties are the same and voting is pointless, but in this particular instance, where the entire government is being held up by a small group of legislators elected by a small minority of voters in particular geographic areas, I think it's true. I'm not sure there is a solution. We may simply be doomed. If there is, then I think it comes down to educating the voting public and convincing them to be more realistic about how politics should work. Beyond that, it would be good to reform the system somewhat so that a small number of people can't bring everything down. The filibuster needs to be made more difficult in the Senate, and the "majority of the majority" rule in the House ought to go away. However, that's a chicken-and-egg problem, since it's hard to get reforms through with the current state of things.
  - ianstallings 13y ago
    Nice retort. I like a lot of what you said there. One thing I would love to see the US government implement is a referendum system that would allow the public to vote on deadlocked issues like this. Congress would be behooved to work together more because if they didn't it would lead to a referendum and take the power of the vote out of their hands for the issue. It would have to be framed very narrowly and only happen when Congress is incapable of deciding as a whole on what to do. There's some holes in that of course but I think we could make it work.