5 ms·

I agree with his thoughts pertaining to, effectively, the fact that people should put some time into being polite even in their negative criticism. Specifically

I agree with his thoughts pertaining to, effectively, the fact that people should put some time into being polite even in their negative criticism. Specifically, things like the following could be said in a better way while still conveying the message that the user has issues with the site: > What is this? Sorry, but I’m not going to watch shapes flying around my screen to find out. However, then he goes on to imply that the things being said are personal attacks, not critiques of the work itself. > If you don’t like my work because it is bad, tell me about it. If you don’t like my work because you don’t like me, talk to the fucking hand. The messages he quoted, while they could have been phrased better, were not personal attacks. They were comments on things that people found wrong with the product, not the person.

mathattack 13y ago
If you're looking for warm fully constructive feedback, there are better places than HN to post. It's like going to a Tea Party website to extoll the benefits of Obamacare. Of course the feedback will be harsh. Some of it might be good too, but don't be surprised that the message can be tough.
- DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
  Harsh feedback is always oh-so-welcome. Jeering without explanation isn't - for me personally anyway. At least, that's how I behave so I probably hope/expect others to do the same for me.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    Hacker News has a spot in the Jeering----Constructive spectrum. You can't complain about the outcome if you know going in where the board is on the spectrum. Better to find (or create) a spot for more constructive advice if this isn't to your liking. (And yes, the internet is filled with assholes)
    - DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
      Hmm, I guess that's where I got it wrong. My first few months of lurking on HN, I saw a lot of positive, encouraging posts & comments. Only when I started commenting did I begin to notice a few acerbic ones popping up here and there. I suspect I was looking at things with rose-tinted glasses and never quite readied myself for the 'darker' moments. Ah well, I learn something new everyday. As an aside, I have been working on something on the 'create a spot' bit you mentioned - as part of my self-learning process - but it is still along way from being an HN or anything like it. :)
      - mathattack 13y ago
        Now are you going to do a Show HN when it's ready? :-)
        DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
        You bet, I will! And thanks to this post, I'll be better equipped to handle all kinds of comments/criticism/jeering as well! :D
  - DanBC 13y ago
    So, how should this be re-written? > Bookmark hell? What about click through stuff hell? Needless to say, 5 clicks through, I gave up. "Users have short attention spans. They will not click through many pages to get to the content. Avoid splash pages if you can, and certainly don't make the user click X times to get the content" - that's very bland. "Ha ha, oh wow, that was a lot of clicking. I gave up, and I think most users would too"? Or what? While I agree with you that showHN is often a bit rougher than it needs to be I agree with others that you've chosen sub-optimal examples.
speeder 13y ago
This post is the epitome of irony. The guy attack HNers as people for attacking people instead of their work, but post as example critiques of work. It is like the bible phrase about judging while still having a post on your eyes.
- DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
  That guy is me, the OP. The post was written as a single-draft rant and published in a hurry. In retrospect, I should have taken care to draft it better. Should I edit the post and structure it better? Is it right to edit your post once it has been published and commented upon? In any case, thanks for the criticism. As for the irony, I would like to politely disagree with you on that one: I am not attacking people of HN in the post at all! In fact attacking is the wrong word, IMHO. I am ranting against/criticizing HN-ers criticizing skills. I personally believe that, in the context of HN, your posts, comments & critiques are defined as "your work". So essentially, I am criticizing "your work", don't you think? Also, I apologised for the rant going slightly off-topic in my last paragraph. I would like to believe that I did not stray too far off-topic but do tell me if I did: I'll take care to construct my future posts better. Thanks for reading!
  - DanBC 13y ago
    > Is it right to edit your post once it has been published and commented upon? Not really. If you make it clear which bits are insertions and edits, or if you only add a section at the end you should be okay.
  - pdonis 13y ago
    The post was written as a single-draft rant and published in a hurry. If you want constructive criticism, here is some: don't do that. Particularly not if you are basically complaining about other people doing that. And even more particularly not if it isn't just a quick comment on HN, but a separate post on your own blog; blog posts are expected to have more thought and care behind them than comments.
    - 13y ago

mathattack 13y ago

If you're looking for warm fully constructive feedback, there are better places than HN to post. It's like going to a Tea Party website to extoll the benefits of Obamacare. Of course the feedback will be harsh. Some of it might be good too, but don't be surprised that the message can be tough.

DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
Harsh feedback is always oh-so-welcome. Jeering without explanation isn't - for me personally anyway. At least, that's how I behave so I probably hope/expect others to do the same for me.
- mathattack 13y ago
  Hacker News has a spot in the Jeering----Constructive spectrum. You can't complain about the outcome if you know going in where the board is on the spectrum. Better to find (or create) a spot for more constructive advice if this isn't to your liking. (And yes, the internet is filled with assholes)
  - DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
    Hmm, I guess that's where I got it wrong. My first few months of lurking on HN, I saw a lot of positive, encouraging posts & comments. Only when I started commenting did I begin to notice a few acerbic ones popping up here and there. I suspect I was looking at things with rose-tinted glasses and never quite readied myself for the 'darker' moments. Ah well, I learn something new everyday. As an aside, I have been working on something on the 'create a spot' bit you mentioned - as part of my self-learning process - but it is still along way from being an HN or anything like it. :)
    - mathattack 13y ago
      Now are you going to do a Show HN when it's ready? :-)
      - DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
        You bet, I will! And thanks to this post, I'll be better equipped to handle all kinds of comments/criticism/jeering as well! :D
- DanBC 13y ago
  So, how should this be re-written? > Bookmark hell? What about click through stuff hell? Needless to say, 5 clicks through, I gave up. "Users have short attention spans. They will not click through many pages to get to the content. Avoid splash pages if you can, and certainly don't make the user click X times to get the content" - that's very bland. "Ha ha, oh wow, that was a lot of clicking. I gave up, and I think most users would too"? Or what? While I agree with you that showHN is often a bit rougher than it needs to be I agree with others that you've chosen sub-optimal examples.

speeder 13y ago

This post is the epitome of irony. The guy attack HNers as people for attacking people instead of their work, but post as example critiques of work. It is like the bible phrase about judging while still having a post on your eyes.

DjangoReinhardt 13y ago
That guy is me, the OP. The post was written as a single-draft rant and published in a hurry. In retrospect, I should have taken care to draft it better. Should I edit the post and structure it better? Is it right to edit your post once it has been published and commented upon? In any case, thanks for the criticism. As for the irony, I would like to politely disagree with you on that one: I am not attacking people of HN in the post at all! In fact attacking is the wrong word, IMHO. I am ranting against/criticizing HN-ers criticizing skills. I personally believe that, in the context of HN, your posts, comments & critiques are defined as "your work". So essentially, I am criticizing "your work", don't you think? Also, I apologised for the rant going slightly off-topic in my last paragraph. I would like to believe that I did not stray too far off-topic but do tell me if I did: I'll take care to construct my future posts better. Thanks for reading!
- DanBC 13y ago
  > Is it right to edit your post once it has been published and commented upon? Not really. If you make it clear which bits are insertions and edits, or if you only add a section at the end you should be okay.
- pdonis 13y ago
  The post was written as a single-draft rant and published in a hurry. If you want constructive criticism, here is some: don't do that. Particularly not if you are basically complaining about other people doing that. And even more particularly not if it isn't just a quick comment on HN, but a separate post on your own blog; blog posts are expected to have more thought and care behind them than comments.
  - 13y ago