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>> I used Java for 7 years and got burnt out with programming because of the amount of upfront design effort required. That is essential for any software engin

>> I used Java for 7 years and got burnt out with programming because of the amount of upfront design effort required. That is essential for any software engineering project (and is almost the definition of `engineering`) >> I could start hacking without thinking about the design o.O >> Refactoring later was trivial. I've never heard someone say that about JavaScript -- in fact, I've heard just the reverse. Java tooling makes refactoring much, much easier. Not so for JavaScript.

olegp 13y ago
Just being honest here! This is my experience after coding in different contexts for 23 years. Your mileage may vary ;)
agibsonccc 13y ago
You're right. As much as people rail on java here, it still has some of if not the best tooling in the industry. You can make javascript pretty easy, but the process is a bit more involved (not a bad thing to know your own code though.) It makes me happy to be able to use sublime for all my programming but java. That being said, I have to agree about the design though. You're only shooting yourself in the foot if you just start coding right away. Even just 10-15 minutes of design up front to understand what the heck you're doing will save hours down the road. I think it's more of a problem of balancing the 2. Some people overdesign and don't get anything done while others just do everything and end up with code rot and technical debt later.
- olegp 13y ago
  Of course one needs to think about the problem up front, especially in JavaScript. The problem with Java was that due to the fact that it's not dynamic, it was easy to get carried away creating abstract base classes and interfaces, or worse yet using generics to build up the foundation for what you actually wanted to do, before you wrote any code that was useful. In JS, the focus for me is to get something that gets the job done in as simple way as possible, and then work to make it more generic.

olegp 13y ago

Just being honest here! This is my experience after coding in different contexts for 23 years. Your mileage may vary ;)

agibsonccc 13y ago

You're right. As much as people rail on java here, it still has some of if not the best tooling in the industry. You can make javascript pretty easy, but the process is a bit more involved (not a bad thing to know your own code though.) It makes me happy to be able to use sublime for all my programming but java. That being said, I have to agree about the design though. You're only shooting yourself in the foot if you just start coding right away. Even just 10-15 minutes of design up front to understand what the heck you're doing will save hours down the road. I think it's more of a problem of balancing the 2. Some people overdesign and don't get anything done while others just do everything and end up with code rot and technical debt later.

olegp 13y ago
Of course one needs to think about the problem up front, especially in JavaScript. The problem with Java was that due to the fact that it's not dynamic, it was easy to get carried away creating abstract base classes and interfaces, or worse yet using generics to build up the foundation for what you actually wanted to do, before you wrote any code that was useful. In JS, the focus for me is to get something that gets the job done in as simple way as possible, and then work to make it more generic.