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Government Shuts Down as Congress Misses Deadline
- orsenthil 13y agoI can't understand this. What is meant by Government Shuts Down? No law and order will be enforced?
- Cub3 13y agoThe US government is on partial shutdown. So many hundreds of thousands of US government workers will either 1. not be paid to work, or 2. be furloughed (not go in to work). This applies to non-essential workers (found a list here - http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-impact/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-s... ). Retroactive pay will apply once things are worked out.
- rbritton 13y agoOne important thing not to forget, Partisan issues aside, is that both Congress and the President still get paid without any hiccups.
- Phlarp 13y agohttp://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/27/us/who-goes-to-work-during-government-shutdown.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/27/us/who-goes-to... Broad strokes seems to be that anything a normal citizen would enjoy or a program of social uplift etc gets shut down. National parks, NASA, various food inspectors (how is that not "essential"??) and some sporadic regulators. Meanwhile, the DEA, military recruiters, and yes congress / the president keep getting paid. Is there a single elected official that will be affected by the shutdown? That would seem like mis-aligned incentives. Who else is ready for some debt ceiling!?
- techsupporter 13y agoCongress and the President are both required to be paid by the Constitution (20th amendment and Art 2, Sec 1, respectively).
- alan_cx 13y agoAh, so they like that part of the constitution.
- dxhdr 13y agoWhen would a full shutdown occur?
- Phlarp 13y agoI'm not aware of any official provisions for a "full shutdown", but if the debt ceiling isn't raised in roughly two weeks the government would technically default on it's obligations. This could certainly be viewed as a type of full shutdown.
- khuey 13y agoThe debt ceiling issue is a lot more complicated than that and even if it weren't raised the federal government would continue to be able to spend the money it receives from tax revenue. That would be a more severe shutdown (and likely catastrophic to world financial markets). But it would not be a "full" shutdown in the sense that the entire government stops functioning.
- D9u 13y agoA "full shutdown" would take everyone in uniform marching to the District of Criminals and throwing all the politicians in jail.
- davidw 13y ago> A "full shutdown" would take everyone in uniform marching to the District of Criminals and throwing all the politicians in jail. You can go live in some kleptocracy in Africa if that kind of thing inspires you. This is exhibit 2736372 of "why political articles on HN are bad". We now have individuals advocating a military coup d'état against the elected government in the US.
- jdimov 13y agoFuck the elected government in the US!
- deleted 13y ago
- nearengine 13y agoWorking without being paid during the furlough ("volunteering") is outlawed[1] to prevent employees from suing for back pay... which is also not guaranteed by any law. CNN simply made that assumption because it was granted during the last major shutdown. http://www.bsnlawfirm.com/newsletter/OP0413_Natter.pdf http://www.bsnlawfirm.com/newsletter/OP0413_Natter.pdf
- saraid216 13y agoAn acquaintance stated that he won't be able to enter campus to check on his live specimens. So they're going to die. I didn't get any details from him, but I'm sort of hoping he's talking about bacteria...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- ck2 13y agoI imagine a Koch brother handing the other a single $1 over a bet they could shutdown the government like in Trading Places.
- D9u 13y agoMaybe the loser has to donate an extra million dollars or so to the winner's favorite charity? http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/02/koch-brothers-give-more-to-charity-than-to-right-wing-causes/ http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/02/koch-brothers-give-m...
- malkia 13y agoDoes anyone know how would this affect public schools?
- seanalltogether 13y agoI've always been under the impression that public schools and police services are all managed by state/local taxes and not tied to the federal budget.
- LandoCalrissian 13y agoThey get federal dollars for certain things, but you are correct that they are managed and largely paid for by their respective state.
- clarkmoody 13y agoPerhaps those in D.C. will be affected.
- jacalata 13y agoDC schools will not close, although I don't know what rule/categorisation/whatever is being applied. The mayor is attempting to keep all city functions going: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/DC-Waits-to-See-If-It-Can-Declare-All-Workers-Essential-225775961.html http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/DC-Waits-to-See-If-I...
- daegloe 13y agoWe had two similar "partial shutdowns" of the US Gov't in the 1990's. Democratic President refusing to cut healthcare-related spending vs. Republican-controlled Congress holding the debt ceiling hostage. Sound familiar? Same game, different players. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_1995_and_1996 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_governmen...
- khuey 13y agoIn the 90s Congress failed to pass a budget. Holding the debt ceiling hostage was never seen or tried as a legitimate political tactic before the last few years.
- daegloe 13y agoNope. In the former speaker's own words... http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/19/opinion/gingrich-obama-congress/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/19/opinion/gingrich-obama-congres...
- clarkmoody 13y agoWouldn't it be nice if the federal government were small enough that it contained no personnel who were "non-essential" ?
- progn 13y agoActually, no. That wouldn't be nice at all. Large government solves the collective action problem and is necessary to have a modern, functioning civilization. I'll take a welfare state over your Randian hellpit any day.
- squidi 13y agoIt's impossible to have only "essential" staff as you will always need "non-essential" staff to support their work. For example, NASA TV employees are "non-essential" [1] but without the TV station it may mean lots of kids are not inspired by NASA any more. Also, Labor statisticians are "non-essential" but would you rather the Department of Labor make decision on gut feelings instead? [1] http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/27/us/who-goes-to-work-during-government-shutdown.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/27/us/who-goes-to...
- insertnickname 13y agoI'd rather not have a Department of Labor.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- vacri 13y agoSome of the non-essential staff that are being suspended include those who process passports. Surely the oversight of documentation stating that you are a citizen of a country should be a government function? Privately-controlled citizenship data would be particularly ripe for corruption.
- mahyarm 13y agoWell theoretically, your birth or naturalization certificate is proof of citizenship, not a passport. And travel can theoretically be done without any sort of passport too. Historically passports are a very recent thing in the history of travel. Also I'd imagine passport & citizenship documentation is a very small part of the government.
- rodgerd 13y agoFrom the perspective of someone who live in a Westminster-style democracy this is made especially bizarre by virtue of the fact that failing to be able to pass a budget bill results in new elections[1]. If you're going to block the budget, you'd better be damned confident that voters agree with you. [1] I suppose technically it results in the head of state inviting other political partites to form a government, and then calling elections when they can't.
- coffeeaddicted 13y agoOne sad aspect of this is that it won't have any effect on the income of the involved politicians.
- summerdown2 13y agoIf they were on suspension too, how would they get together to eventually agree a fix? I agree about the incentives being wrong, and I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but unfortunately, they're exactly the ones who have to keep working until it's over.
- coffeeaddicted 13y agoDoesn't have to be all or nothing. But they are responsible for this mess, so cut their income by 50% or even just 25% for the time. Or reducing their income by X% each day where they can't find a solution.
- PeterisP 13y agoOh, have them come to work but skip all their compensation until they pass a budget that includes it.