6 ms·

What's funny is Microsoft likely had to give Delta a steep discount just to get this PR win. With the iPad, companies will use it because it's a great product t

What's funny is Microsoft likely had to give Delta a steep discount just to get this PR win. With the iPad, companies will use it because it's a great product that people want to use, so they use it. I guess Microsoft will do what it has to do to get someone to use the Surface 2.

unethical_ban 13y ago
iPad has momentum Surface doesn't. We'll see how the surface 2 comes along.
ecspike 13y ago
And I bet it was also part of the deal that they had to split up the announcement of the Nokia Lumia deal for the flight attendants and this one to get maximum press cycles.
xenophanes 13y ago
Yep you called it. See: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/30/delta-pilots-fought-against-deal-to-replace-ipad-flight-bags-with-microsoft-surface http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/30/delta-pilots-fough... > "We fought hard for iPad," a pilot working for the airline told AppleInsider. He described the Delta deal as being about money, travel contracts, and Delta's Information Technology staff historically being "in bed" with Microsoft. Read the rest of the article. It gets worse.
- protomyth 13y ago
  And here we see why Steve Jobs said at the D conference didn't like selling to companies. Microsoft is still very, very good at corporate sales.
- bicknergseng 13y ago
  I don't know... a single, anonymous pilot's 6 word quote followed by a lot of editorial in Apple Insider. It's not like Apple hasn't done plenty of loss leaders.
  - Bud 13y ago
    Oh? Which loss leaders, exactly?
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  >"Delta's Information Technology staff historically being "in bed" with Microsoft" You do realise that Apple doesn't sell any corporate software, whereas Active Directory and other MS key server techs are a fundamental part of many company's networks. AFAIK, Apple doesn't make it exactly easy to remote manage devices - that's not their main target, while it is for Microsoft. The deal is still probably more about PR, but it's not like IT being "in bed" with MS is anything new.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - eddieroger 13y ago
    > AFAIK, Apple doesn't make it exactly easy to remote manage devices - that's not their main target, while it is for Microsoft. Apple's MDM suite is actually pretty robust these days, and iOS 7 made it better with silent OTA installs and even more controls. Of course, that relies on a device being online (as any remote management tool would), and I'm not sure if the FAA approved the trial iPads or the Surfaces to have any kind of wireless on during flight. Actually, if these are the Surface RT 2 and not Surface Pro 2, then I think Apple's MDM would win for remote management. Last I understood, WinRT lacked basic remote admin things like joining a domain and policies.
curiousDog 13y ago
In what ways exactly is the iPad a very great product compared to the surface 2 (which isn't even out yet?). IMO, both have advantages over each other. In fact, I'd say it's more useful than the ipad considering that the pilots won't be using it to only watch netflix. The Surface 2 at least allows for a bit of productivity with the free office suite. Seems like people would want to use iPad just because it was the first to enter the market and has the mind share. I'd consider this to be a good way of garnering some of that.
- baddox 13y ago
  For this use case, there's probably not a major usability difference, but for general consumer desirability, the iPad obviously has a huge advantage.
- xenophanes 13y ago
  FYI new ios devices come with apple's free office productivity software now (pages, keynote, numbers). they announced that at the iphone event a few weeks ago. but the airlines don't want the pilots using office software, that's not what these devices are for. the reason many pilots prefer ipad, i would guess, is because of better/easier UI conventions for ios apps and possibly a better touch screen. that would actually be relevant in the flight related apps the devices are meant for.
  - ericcumbee 13y ago
    How good is the new Iworks on IOS. I played around with it once, and was not all that impressed. I have a Thinkpad tablet and having the real version of MS Office on a tablet that size is nice.
  - DuskStar 13y ago
    Note that only the iPhone 5s and 5c will receive iWork for free - all of the older devices still require the purchase of those apps. "Older" includes all 4 iPads, as far as I know. As for better ui - I've heard very few complaints about Metro on a touchscreen. The biggest complaints I've heard are about using it with a mouse and keyboard, which isn't exactly the normal Surface 2 or iPad use case.
blktiger 13y ago
My dad is a pilot for Delta. Many of the pilots simply buy their own iPads rather than use the MS Surface provided by Delta. For Pilots, the iPad is light-years ahead of the Surface in terms of apps. It's also quite a bit ahead of android as well.
brudgers 13y ago
From a life-safety standpoint, it's not a big deal if a social networking app breaks when the latest OS is pushed onto a computing device. It's a bit different if the preflight checklist software for a passenger jet fails. Microsoft B2B focus and history bending over backward for backwards compatibility gives it a clear market advantage. Having a full technology stack continuous from servers to phones doesn't hurt either. The weakness of the iPad is that it is a thoroughly a consumer oriented product. In the long haul, it makes sense for enterprise as a BYOD option. It's a little harder to build a stable IT roadmap upon.
- leetrout 13y ago
  Totally read that as "BSOD option".
- yaeger 13y ago
  >The weakness of the iPad is that it is a thoroughly a consumer oriented product. When it is supposed to replace paper manuals for pilots, all you need is a consumer grade tablet. Especially if it comes in a build quality like the iPad. And with the now free iWork suit it is not even exclusively a consumer device. But again, if you just use it as an alternative to paper manuals, where exactly is the need for a Surface? What feature of the Surface would be of use for the Pilots that they don't get with an iPad?
melling 13y ago
Microsoft has had a desktop monopoly for two decades (90% market share) and they see this being threatened by mobile. In a few years, mobile will evolve and many people will be happy with simply using tablet devices. If they can't make any inroads into mobile, they are going to contract quite a bit because they really only can lose desktop market share. In addition with their Office Suite cash cow not running on iOS or Android, their earnings with be impacted even more.
RexRollman 13y ago
Maybe Delta just wanted to issue something that no one would want to steal?
victorf 13y ago
MS PR is weird, though, like all TV shows are set in this bizarro world where everyone uses a Surface and Windows Phone. I don't think people will care about this unless the pilots end up enjoying it and recommending it. Maybe there's a more extensive deal; limited free wifi on Delta flights for Surface users? Plane-local wifi with access to movies via a Surface app?

unethical_ban 13y ago

iPad has momentum Surface doesn't. We'll see how the surface 2 comes along.

ecspike 13y ago

And I bet it was also part of the deal that they had to split up the announcement of the Nokia Lumia deal for the flight attendants and this one to get maximum press cycles.

xenophanes 13y ago

Yep you called it. See: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/30/delta-pilots-fought-against-deal-to-replace-ipad-flight-bags-with-microsoft-surface http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/30/delta-pilots-fough... > "We fought hard for iPad," a pilot working for the airline told AppleInsider. He described the Delta deal as being about money, travel contracts, and Delta's Information Technology staff historically being "in bed" with Microsoft. Read the rest of the article. It gets worse.

protomyth 13y ago
And here we see why Steve Jobs said at the D conference didn't like selling to companies. Microsoft is still very, very good at corporate sales.
bicknergseng 13y ago
I don't know... a single, anonymous pilot's 6 word quote followed by a lot of editorial in Apple Insider. It's not like Apple hasn't done plenty of loss leaders.
- Bud 13y ago
  Oh? Which loss leaders, exactly?
MichaelGG 13y ago
>"Delta's Information Technology staff historically being "in bed" with Microsoft" You do realise that Apple doesn't sell any corporate software, whereas Active Directory and other MS key server techs are a fundamental part of many company's networks. AFAIK, Apple doesn't make it exactly easy to remote manage devices - that's not their main target, while it is for Microsoft. The deal is still probably more about PR, but it's not like IT being "in bed" with MS is anything new.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- eddieroger 13y ago
  > AFAIK, Apple doesn't make it exactly easy to remote manage devices - that's not their main target, while it is for Microsoft. Apple's MDM suite is actually pretty robust these days, and iOS 7 made it better with silent OTA installs and even more controls. Of course, that relies on a device being online (as any remote management tool would), and I'm not sure if the FAA approved the trial iPads or the Surfaces to have any kind of wireless on during flight. Actually, if these are the Surface RT 2 and not Surface Pro 2, then I think Apple's MDM would win for remote management. Last I understood, WinRT lacked basic remote admin things like joining a domain and policies.

curiousDog 13y ago

In what ways exactly is the iPad a very great product compared to the surface 2 (which isn't even out yet?). IMO, both have advantages over each other. In fact, I'd say it's more useful than the ipad considering that the pilots won't be using it to only watch netflix. The Surface 2 at least allows for a bit of productivity with the free office suite. Seems like people would want to use iPad just because it was the first to enter the market and has the mind share. I'd consider this to be a good way of garnering some of that.

baddox 13y ago
For this use case, there's probably not a major usability difference, but for general consumer desirability, the iPad obviously has a huge advantage.
xenophanes 13y ago
FYI new ios devices come with apple's free office productivity software now (pages, keynote, numbers). they announced that at the iphone event a few weeks ago. but the airlines don't want the pilots using office software, that's not what these devices are for. the reason many pilots prefer ipad, i would guess, is because of better/easier UI conventions for ios apps and possibly a better touch screen. that would actually be relevant in the flight related apps the devices are meant for.
- ericcumbee 13y ago
  How good is the new Iworks on IOS. I played around with it once, and was not all that impressed. I have a Thinkpad tablet and having the real version of MS Office on a tablet that size is nice.
- DuskStar 13y ago
  Note that only the iPhone 5s and 5c will receive iWork for free - all of the older devices still require the purchase of those apps. "Older" includes all 4 iPads, as far as I know. As for better ui - I've heard very few complaints about Metro on a touchscreen. The biggest complaints I've heard are about using it with a mouse and keyboard, which isn't exactly the normal Surface 2 or iPad use case.

blktiger 13y ago

My dad is a pilot for Delta. Many of the pilots simply buy their own iPads rather than use the MS Surface provided by Delta. For Pilots, the iPad is light-years ahead of the Surface in terms of apps. It's also quite a bit ahead of android as well.

brudgers 13y ago

From a life-safety standpoint, it's not a big deal if a social networking app breaks when the latest OS is pushed onto a computing device. It's a bit different if the preflight checklist software for a passenger jet fails. Microsoft B2B focus and history bending over backward for backwards compatibility gives it a clear market advantage. Having a full technology stack continuous from servers to phones doesn't hurt either. The weakness of the iPad is that it is a thoroughly a consumer oriented product. In the long haul, it makes sense for enterprise as a BYOD option. It's a little harder to build a stable IT roadmap upon.

leetrout 13y ago
Totally read that as "BSOD option".
yaeger 13y ago
>The weakness of the iPad is that it is a thoroughly a consumer oriented product. When it is supposed to replace paper manuals for pilots, all you need is a consumer grade tablet. Especially if it comes in a build quality like the iPad. And with the now free iWork suit it is not even exclusively a consumer device. But again, if you just use it as an alternative to paper manuals, where exactly is the need for a Surface? What feature of the Surface would be of use for the Pilots that they don't get with an iPad?

melling 13y ago

Microsoft has had a desktop monopoly for two decades (90% market share) and they see this being threatened by mobile. In a few years, mobile will evolve and many people will be happy with simply using tablet devices. If they can't make any inroads into mobile, they are going to contract quite a bit because they really only can lose desktop market share. In addition with their Office Suite cash cow not running on iOS or Android, their earnings with be impacted even more.

RexRollman 13y ago

Maybe Delta just wanted to issue something that no one would want to steal?

victorf 13y ago

MS PR is weird, though, like all TV shows are set in this bizarro world where everyone uses a Surface and Windows Phone. I don't think people will care about this unless the pilots end up enjoying it and recommending it. Maybe there's a more extensive deal; limited free wifi on Delta flights for Surface users? Plane-local wifi with access to movies via a Surface app?