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The only way these abuses are going to stop is if the government employees and contractors who ordered and/or architected these systems are prosecuted and convi

by koops 13y ago

The only way these abuses are going to stop is if the government employees and contractors who ordered and/or architected these systems are prosecuted and convicted. When is that going to happen, Eric Holder? Barack Obama? Unless it does, good luck, Democrats, hiring the best data guys for next election.

bsullivan01 13y ago
The only way these abuses are going to stop is if the government employees and contractors who ordered and/or architected these systems are prosecuted and convicted. Wink + nod and nothing will happen even if they did something illegal. But, all these shenanigans were OK's by Obama's DOJ and handpicked rubber-stamp judges. So technically NSA et al did nothing illegal, judges approved all of it.
rhizome 13y ago
It's possible that laws have to be passed to prohibit it, in which case ex-post facto prevents the current and past practices to be prosecuted.
- drivebyacct2 13y ago
  Not necessarily, they could string Keith Alexander up for repeatedly lying to Congress, if they wanted.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
drivebyacct2 13y ago
The implication that this was Democrat led or is a remotely partisan issue is highly amusing. It's like my cousin who I debated wiretapping with 10 years ago. Now he's an enraged as I am and pointing it at Obama and all I can do is laugh at his short sighted anger.
twoodfin 13y ago
Isn't step one President Obama ordering these programs to be stopped? It's hard to see how he's going to prosecute anyone for carrying out programs his own administration either started or allowed to continue.
- vabmit 13y ago
  > Isn't step one President Obama ordering these programs > to be stopped? It's hard to see how he's going to > prosecute anyone for carrying out programs his own > administration either started or allowed to continue. Yeah, President Obama is the one driving all of this. How can anyone even imagine that he would stop it? And, the next president (probably Hillary) will drive it even harder. 9/11 pushed the US past a point of no return. If you read some recent US military history you can get a well integrated picture of what's really going on. The Office of the President essentially has it's own military, separate from the US Armed Forces and the US Legislature - SOCOM. The President by his hand alone can order SOCOM, in secret, to strike at any time and even to assassinate American citizens. That's an incredible power. It's not the only way the Office of the President has become more powerful in the last decade, though. The number of "signing statements" used by Obama to bypass congress is mind blowing. The only way the power of the Office of the President will be reduced in the future, and things like the NSA domestic surveillance activities stopped, is through a civil war that ends in a new constitution and completely restructured government. Does anyone really think that members of congress aren't being blackmailed with information the domestic surveillance activities produced? Look at the recent monitoring of press phones to see that the capabilities are turned against our representatives. Look to the recent insider trading investigation to see the kinds of things they'd be blackmailed over. They're powerless.
  - criley2 13y ago
    I think it's impressive that you think the figurehead has the power. I promise you that if you think Congress is being intimidated by the intelligence community, than it's equally if not more so likely that the president himself is as well. Here's the likely scenario: the President has his first real sitdown with the intelligence community after inauguration, and they hand him a manilla folder. Inside the folder is the file they've kept on that new president for decades. Every phone call, email, text, app-download or piece of mail they ever sent is in there. It's all there, every blackmail piece, every high school sweetheart, every illicit lover, everything. The blackmail isn't overt, but the nature of the asymmetric relationship is established and the truism that information is power is reaffirmed. I simply cannot believe that the figurehead-of-the-decade is the puppeteer and not the puppet.
evanlivingston 13y ago
er, isn't it good data guys who are creating the technology responsible for these abuses?
rayiner 13y ago
Prosecute them for what.

by koops 13y ago

bsullivan01 13y ago

The only way these abuses are going to stop is if the government employees and contractors who ordered and/or architected these systems are prosecuted and convicted. Wink + nod and nothing will happen even if they did something illegal. But, all these shenanigans were OK's by Obama's DOJ and handpicked rubber-stamp judges. So technically NSA et al did nothing illegal, judges approved all of it.

rhizome 13y ago

It's possible that laws have to be passed to prohibit it, in which case ex-post facto prevents the current and past practices to be prosecuted.

drivebyacct2 13y ago
Not necessarily, they could string Keith Alexander up for repeatedly lying to Congress, if they wanted.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

drivebyacct2 13y ago

The implication that this was Democrat led or is a remotely partisan issue is highly amusing. It's like my cousin who I debated wiretapping with 10 years ago. Now he's an enraged as I am and pointing it at Obama and all I can do is laugh at his short sighted anger.

twoodfin 13y ago

Isn't step one President Obama ordering these programs to be stopped? It's hard to see how he's going to prosecute anyone for carrying out programs his own administration either started or allowed to continue.

vabmit 13y ago
> Isn't step one President Obama ordering these programs > to be stopped? It's hard to see how he's going to > prosecute anyone for carrying out programs his own > administration either started or allowed to continue. Yeah, President Obama is the one driving all of this. How can anyone even imagine that he would stop it? And, the next president (probably Hillary) will drive it even harder. 9/11 pushed the US past a point of no return. If you read some recent US military history you can get a well integrated picture of what's really going on. The Office of the President essentially has it's own military, separate from the US Armed Forces and the US Legislature - SOCOM. The President by his hand alone can order SOCOM, in secret, to strike at any time and even to assassinate American citizens. That's an incredible power. It's not the only way the Office of the President has become more powerful in the last decade, though. The number of "signing statements" used by Obama to bypass congress is mind blowing. The only way the power of the Office of the President will be reduced in the future, and things like the NSA domestic surveillance activities stopped, is through a civil war that ends in a new constitution and completely restructured government. Does anyone really think that members of congress aren't being blackmailed with information the domestic surveillance activities produced? Look at the recent monitoring of press phones to see that the capabilities are turned against our representatives. Look to the recent insider trading investigation to see the kinds of things they'd be blackmailed over. They're powerless.
- criley2 13y ago
  I think it's impressive that you think the figurehead has the power. I promise you that if you think Congress is being intimidated by the intelligence community, than it's equally if not more so likely that the president himself is as well. Here's the likely scenario: the President has his first real sitdown with the intelligence community after inauguration, and they hand him a manilla folder. Inside the folder is the file they've kept on that new president for decades. Every phone call, email, text, app-download or piece of mail they ever sent is in there. It's all there, every blackmail piece, every high school sweetheart, every illicit lover, everything. The blackmail isn't overt, but the nature of the asymmetric relationship is established and the truism that information is power is reaffirmed. I simply cannot believe that the figurehead-of-the-decade is the puppeteer and not the puppet.

evanlivingston 13y ago

er, isn't it good data guys who are creating the technology responsible for these abuses?

rayiner 13y ago

Prosecute them for what.