4 ms·

The Growth Hacker Movement Is Poisonous

26 points by stevenklein 13y ago

jacal 13y ago
When your self-hype-double-speak stops paying the tabs for the checks your work can't cash, change the name, it's all the same... a sucker a minute, so you better sugar up another stick. Follow the money behind a dream. Suck it dry. Rinse, repeat.
stevenklein 13y ago
happy to elaborate and discuss
krmmalik 13y ago
Exactly what I've been saying for the past few months. It's just another fad.
- stevenklein 13y ago
  I don't actually think it's a fad per se - startups will always be looking for new ways to drive growth. The media hype will die down when the next job title is invented but growing the customer/user base will always be the #1 problem startups face.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    I think you should lead with that next time rather than the link-baity title. The number one thing "startups" must understand (and that is everything from Y combinator to food truck) is how are they going to find customers, how are they going to convince those customers to use their startup, and how much is that going to cost per customer. "Growth Hacker" is just a meme, but it is a cherished meme by some, and trying to acquire readers by shooting their meme (or threatening too) is not a durable way to get readers. Just like selling cheap imported stuff as a loss leader at a store doesn't make for life long customers.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    growing the customer/user base will always be the #1 problem startups face. Revenue is something other than #1?
moocowduckquack 13y ago
<title>n is really bad</title> <body>we actually think n is good, but we feel it is getting devalued now it is populardiscuss</body>
- StavrosK 13y ago
 Please close your .
 - moocowduckquack 13y ago
 but then I won't be able to see my screen
 - cheapsteak 13y ago
 Incidentally, Google's style guide actually recommends omitting optional tags such as the closing http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/htmlcssguide.xml?showone=Optional_Tags#Optional_Tags http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/htmlcssgui...
LandoCalrissian 13y ago
I think Growth Hacker debases the work hacker more than anything else...
- kumarski 13y ago
  I prefer to call myself a link-builder. This seems more accurate. Growth Hacker is loaded with too much controversy and hogwash.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    Hmm.. Maybe after a heavy dinner.
ajross 13y ago
I really want this to be true. I will say that as someone with a corporate job outside the actual startup community, I really miss the days of "Make something people want", and "Ramen profitable" (does anyone even remember ramen profitability anymore?). It really does seem that the community has sold itself out to a process aimed at driving multiround funding toward an acquisition event and that it's lost sight of the fun of making actual products. But my fear is that, no, "growth hacking" really is the path to success in this world; and that all the ramen was just something that amounts to a marketing gimick to get the bubble off the ground...
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  does anyone even remember ramen profitability anymore? Interesting thought. If the standard mode is now to get VCs and angels to plow cash into your venture, is anybody actually depending on the profits of their venture to eat anymore?
  - ahoyhere 13y ago
    Yes, lots of us are. The trick is, we've mostly given up on HN. First of all because we got tired of the "lifestyle business" sneer/smear. Second there is almost no content here for us any more. In May, I organized a 100% bootstrapped product conference: http://baconbiz.com http://baconbiz.com. We had 16 speakers, out of a total of 65 people. (All lightning speakers bought their own tickets.) Many traveled for hours to attend. Why? Who? What happened? Our trailer: http://cheerful.wistia.com/medias/i8my1fqcyt http://cheerful.wistia.com/medias/i8my1fqcyt Once we get all the conf videos posted, we'll be working on a discussion/community site for product bootstrappers as well, to fill the hole left by the demise of the early HN experience. In true bootstrap fashion, we ditched the hotel ballroom and held the event in our office. Sponsors just paid for our "after" party (on 1st night, Thursday, instead of Friday, to save costs.) The conf itself was "ramen profitable."
    - porter 13y ago
      kinda like micropreneur.com?
hvass 13y ago
I disagree. Growth hacking is not tactics, it's a different way to think about marketing and it completely doesn't take away the focus on building a remarkable product. The book Growth Hacker Marketing: A Primer begins with the importance of PMF and marketing getting embedded in Product Development. I do agree however that the '101 tactics to growthack' are mostly B.S. and take away from the way to think about it.
BigChiefSmokem 13y ago
Startups now a days are just a cheap(ish) way to conduct R&D for big corps. Just invest a little money around town with your big-corp buddies and then bid for the best products that come out of it. All other startup losers can continue eating their ramen until they age out of the "system" (ie grow up and get a family) and go to work for said Big Corp, Inc. until "retirement" (the day before you die). But yeah, I'm being cynical too.
micahroberson 13y ago
I think the most important thing to remember is that the goal of growth hacking is to get growth and get more users. The 652 Actionable Growth Hacks You Can Do Today! type articles lose sight of that and end up with the goal of growth hacking to growth hack.
wmf 13y ago
Speaking of not creating value, repetitive advice blogging is poisonous.
adjunct1234 13y ago
viddy, socialCam, BranchOut, DoAlbums all used FB open graph when you could report on content consumption which created fast viral loops (Viral coefficient >1 ), even todays best growth hacking is going to find it hard to produce such results, basically retention is key.... if you have retention on small scale only then do growth hacking!

26 points by stevenklein 13y ago

jacal 13y ago

When your self-hype-double-speak stops paying the tabs for the checks your work can't cash, change the name, it's all the same... a sucker a minute, so you better sugar up another stick. Follow the money behind a dream. Suck it dry. Rinse, repeat.

stevenklein 13y ago

happy to elaborate and discuss

krmmalik 13y ago

Exactly what I've been saying for the past few months. It's just another fad.

stevenklein 13y ago
I don't actually think it's a fad per se - startups will always be looking for new ways to drive growth. The media hype will die down when the next job title is invented but growing the customer/user base will always be the #1 problem startups face.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  I think you should lead with that next time rather than the link-baity title. The number one thing "startups" must understand (and that is everything from Y combinator to food truck) is how are they going to find customers, how are they going to convince those customers to use their startup, and how much is that going to cost per customer. "Growth Hacker" is just a meme, but it is a cherished meme by some, and trying to acquire readers by shooting their meme (or threatening too) is not a durable way to get readers. Just like selling cheap imported stuff as a loss leader at a store doesn't make for life long customers.
- rhizome 13y ago
  growing the customer/user base will always be the #1 problem startups face. Revenue is something other than #1?

moocowduckquack 13y ago

<title>n is really bad</title> <body>we actually think n is good, but we feel it is getting devalued now it is populardiscuss</body>

StavrosK 13y ago
Please close your .
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
 but then I won't be able to see my screen
- cheapsteak 13y ago
 Incidentally, Google's style guide actually recommends omitting optional tags such as the closing http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/htmlcssguide.xml?showone=Optional_Tags#Optional_Tags http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/htmlcssgui...

LandoCalrissian 13y ago

I think Growth Hacker debases the work hacker more than anything else...

kumarski 13y ago
I prefer to call myself a link-builder. This seems more accurate. Growth Hacker is loaded with too much controversy and hogwash.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Hmm.. Maybe after a heavy dinner.

ajross 13y ago

I really want this to be true. I will say that as someone with a corporate job outside the actual startup community, I really miss the days of "Make something people want", and "Ramen profitable" (does anyone even remember ramen profitability anymore?). It really does seem that the community has sold itself out to a process aimed at driving multiround funding toward an acquisition event and that it's lost sight of the fun of making actual products. But my fear is that, no, "growth hacking" really is the path to success in this world; and that all the ramen was just something that amounts to a marketing gimick to get the bubble off the ground...

sliverstorm 13y ago
does anyone even remember ramen profitability anymore? Interesting thought. If the standard mode is now to get VCs and angels to plow cash into your venture, is anybody actually depending on the profits of their venture to eat anymore?
- ahoyhere 13y ago
  Yes, lots of us are. The trick is, we've mostly given up on HN. First of all because we got tired of the "lifestyle business" sneer/smear. Second there is almost no content here for us any more. In May, I organized a 100% bootstrapped product conference: http://baconbiz.com http://baconbiz.com. We had 16 speakers, out of a total of 65 people. (All lightning speakers bought their own tickets.) Many traveled for hours to attend. Why? Who? What happened? Our trailer: http://cheerful.wistia.com/medias/i8my1fqcyt http://cheerful.wistia.com/medias/i8my1fqcyt Once we get all the conf videos posted, we'll be working on a discussion/community site for product bootstrappers as well, to fill the hole left by the demise of the early HN experience. In true bootstrap fashion, we ditched the hotel ballroom and held the event in our office. Sponsors just paid for our "after" party (on 1st night, Thursday, instead of Friday, to save costs.) The conf itself was "ramen profitable."
  - porter 13y ago
    kinda like micropreneur.com?

hvass 13y ago

I disagree. Growth hacking is not tactics, it's a different way to think about marketing and it completely doesn't take away the focus on building a remarkable product. The book Growth Hacker Marketing: A Primer begins with the importance of PMF and marketing getting embedded in Product Development. I do agree however that the '101 tactics to growthack' are mostly B.S. and take away from the way to think about it.

BigChiefSmokem 13y ago

Startups now a days are just a cheap(ish) way to conduct R&D for big corps. Just invest a little money around town with your big-corp buddies and then bid for the best products that come out of it. All other startup losers can continue eating their ramen until they age out of the "system" (ie grow up and get a family) and go to work for said Big Corp, Inc. until "retirement" (the day before you die). But yeah, I'm being cynical too.

micahroberson 13y ago

I think the most important thing to remember is that the goal of growth hacking is to get growth and get more users. The 652 Actionable Growth Hacks You Can Do Today! type articles lose sight of that and end up with the goal of growth hacking to growth hack.

wmf 13y ago

Speaking of not creating value, repetitive advice blogging is poisonous.

adjunct1234 13y ago

viddy, socialCam, BranchOut, DoAlbums all used FB open graph when you could report on content consumption which created fast viral loops (Viral coefficient >1 ), even todays best growth hacking is going to find it hard to produce such results, basically retention is key.... if you have retention on small scale only then do growth hacking!