7 ms·

Super. I'll just neatly put my name next to a list of people (which the NSA has connected to) who oppose the surveillance state ... and hope I don't get black b

by bdg 13y ago

Super. I'll just neatly put my name next to a list of people (which the NSA has connected to) who oppose the surveillance state ... and hope I don't get black bagged to your fancy Cuban torture prisons if I ever cross into the USA.

deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago
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mjolk 13y ago
>"and hope I don't get black bagged to your fancy Cuban torture prisons if I ever cross into the USA." Oh give me a break with the hyperbole. The NSA likely doesn't give a fuck about your activity of pissing and moaning on hacker news.
- bandushrew 13y ago
  How do you know? or do you mean that you hope the NSA doesn't give a fuck?
  - mjolk 13y ago
    Because you're not dangerous or a threat. Not that I love the idea of someone awkwardly thumbing through content that my mind has created, but why would the NSA care to detain a foreign national over being smug?
    - bandushrew 13y ago
      I dont know. That is rather the point though, isn't? There are many other countries whose authorities would absolutely care to detain foreign nationals over being smug. What makes you believe that some individuals within the NSA are not of that type of person?
      - mjolk 13y ago
        >What makes you believe that some individuals within the NSA are not of that type of person? Because the NSA just records the information, they don't get to make the call on detention. Gitmo isn't full of people that called the government a bunch of jerks or complained about wiretapping/taxes/etc. In my humble opinion, the greatest abuse that could come from this wiretapping is much more mundane and offensive - NSA employees cyberstalking and mining data of sexual interests/current partners.
        betterunix 13y ago
        We have already seen a much greater abuse of this data: cooperation between the NSA and law enforcement agencies, along with a conspiracy to lie to judges, defense attorneys, and even prosecutors about how evidence was collected. If this were limited to spying on former love interests, it would be creepy; "parallel construction" is dangerous.
        mjolk 13y ago
        >We have already seen a much greater abuse of this data: cooperation between the NSA and law enforcement agencies, along with a conspiracy to lie to judges, defense attorneys, and even prosecutors about how evidence was collected. Link to where this was abused to punish an innocent person?
        betterunix 13y ago
        The right to challenge the evidence is not limited to innocent people. That includes the right to challenge the evidence on constitutional grounds, and includes the right to prevent evidence from being presented if it was improperly or unconstitutionally collected. That includes smoking gun evidence that unambiguously demonstrates that a person committed the crime they are accused of. It makes no difference whatsoever if these tactics were ever used against an innocent person. These tactics are violations of civil rights across the board. Yes, guilty people have civil rights in this country. No, our justice system is not meant to ensure that every single guilty person is punished for their crimes.
    - betterunix 13y ago
      "Because you're not dangerous or a threat" Neither are most (all?) of the people who are detained at the airport, denied entry into America, or otherwise harassed by our government. What exactly is your point?
      - mjolk 13y ago
        Stop trying to link the TSA and people denied at the border (there's no inalienable right to people coming into the country) with the NSA. What is your point? The NSA might be greedy for info, but they're not stupid or act [as an agency] irrationally.
    - x0x0 13y ago
      dangerous or a threat to whom exactly? Pray tell, to whom was Dr King a threat [1]? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_Surveillance_and_wiretapping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_Sur...
      - jrochkind1 13y ago
        Well, since you asked... MLK was a threat to capitalism, which many powerful people have a stake in.
  - Paddywack 13y ago
    If it was only "being smug" that would probably be tolerable. The issue here is actively paying for them to challenge the legality of the NSA's actions - something that would really irritate the NSA, to say the least.
- bdg 13y ago
  People have been detained for pissing and moaning on twitter about the president. But thanks for being so pleasant about sharing your assumptions.
  - cbr 13y ago
    link?
  - mjolk 13y ago
    Can you provide a link to prove this? And come on, there's no need to be pleasant the umpteenth-thousand time that someone mades a snide, ultra-paranoid remark about America that scrapes the bottom of Godwin's law.
    - bdg 13y ago
      Your manner degenerates any productive conversation. Thank you for reaching Goodwin's law first.
      - mjolk 13y ago
        It really doesn't though. The ease of consumption of the political topics is killing the depth of discussion on hackernews and forcing people elsewhere, especially when comments like "wow don't gitmo me bro" are now considered acceptable.
  - ics 13y ago
    You mean this? http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3521473/man-who-tweeted-threats-to-president.html#.UkncfyR56QM http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3521473/man-who-... ...
    - bdg 13y ago
      That's one of many. The first one that comes to my mind is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-Bunting-Leigh-Van-Bryan-UK-tourists-arrested-destroy-America-Twitter-jokes.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-Buntin...
- x0x0 13y ago
  You mean like (what I would call) illegal detainment and warrantless searches of David House, simply because he is a human rights activist and was raising money for Chelsea Bradley's defense? [1] The pigs stole his laptop and usb drive for more than two months, and took a copy of a supporters list. There was no reason to believe this man had anything to do with Chelsea or was doing anything but raising money for her defense. [1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/govt-agrees-to-destroy-data-seized-in-political-interrogation-at-airport/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/govt-agrees-to-de...
- 4ad 13y ago
  If they don't (viewpoint that I agree with), them pissing and moaning on Hacker News is completely pointless.
  - angersock 13y ago
    That doesn't mean it's not fun!
- brymaster 13y ago
  > The NSA likely doesn't give a fuck about your activity of pissing and moaning on hacker news. Yeah, sure... "Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6171836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6171836

by bdg 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mjolk 13y ago

>"and hope I don't get black bagged to your fancy Cuban torture prisons if I ever cross into the USA." Oh give me a break with the hyperbole. The NSA likely doesn't give a fuck about your activity of pissing and moaning on hacker news.

bandushrew 13y ago
How do you know? or do you mean that you hope the NSA doesn't give a fuck?
- mjolk 13y ago
  Because you're not dangerous or a threat. Not that I love the idea of someone awkwardly thumbing through content that my mind has created, but why would the NSA care to detain a foreign national over being smug?
  - bandushrew 13y ago
    I dont know. That is rather the point though, isn't? There are many other countries whose authorities would absolutely care to detain foreign nationals over being smug. What makes you believe that some individuals within the NSA are not of that type of person?
    - mjolk 13y ago
      >What makes you believe that some individuals within the NSA are not of that type of person? Because the NSA just records the information, they don't get to make the call on detention. Gitmo isn't full of people that called the government a bunch of jerks or complained about wiretapping/taxes/etc. In my humble opinion, the greatest abuse that could come from this wiretapping is much more mundane and offensive - NSA employees cyberstalking and mining data of sexual interests/current partners.
      - betterunix 13y ago
        We have already seen a much greater abuse of this data: cooperation between the NSA and law enforcement agencies, along with a conspiracy to lie to judges, defense attorneys, and even prosecutors about how evidence was collected. If this were limited to spying on former love interests, it would be creepy; "parallel construction" is dangerous.
        mjolk 13y ago
        >We have already seen a much greater abuse of this data: cooperation between the NSA and law enforcement agencies, along with a conspiracy to lie to judges, defense attorneys, and even prosecutors about how evidence was collected. Link to where this was abused to punish an innocent person?
        betterunix 13y ago
        The right to challenge the evidence is not limited to innocent people. That includes the right to challenge the evidence on constitutional grounds, and includes the right to prevent evidence from being presented if it was improperly or unconstitutionally collected. That includes smoking gun evidence that unambiguously demonstrates that a person committed the crime they are accused of. It makes no difference whatsoever if these tactics were ever used against an innocent person. These tactics are violations of civil rights across the board. Yes, guilty people have civil rights in this country. No, our justice system is not meant to ensure that every single guilty person is punished for their crimes.
  - betterunix 13y ago
    "Because you're not dangerous or a threat" Neither are most (all?) of the people who are detained at the airport, denied entry into America, or otherwise harassed by our government. What exactly is your point?
    - mjolk 13y ago
      Stop trying to link the TSA and people denied at the border (there's no inalienable right to people coming into the country) with the NSA. What is your point? The NSA might be greedy for info, but they're not stupid or act [as an agency] irrationally.
  - x0x0 13y ago
    dangerous or a threat to whom exactly? Pray tell, to whom was Dr King a threat [1]? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_Surveillance_and_wiretapping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#FBI_Sur...
    - jrochkind1 13y ago
      Well, since you asked... MLK was a threat to capitalism, which many powerful people have a stake in.
- Paddywack 13y ago
  If it was only "being smug" that would probably be tolerable. The issue here is actively paying for them to challenge the legality of the NSA's actions - something that would really irritate the NSA, to say the least.
bdg 13y ago
People have been detained for pissing and moaning on twitter about the president. But thanks for being so pleasant about sharing your assumptions.
- cbr 13y ago
  link?
- mjolk 13y ago
  Can you provide a link to prove this? And come on, there's no need to be pleasant the umpteenth-thousand time that someone mades a snide, ultra-paranoid remark about America that scrapes the bottom of Godwin's law.
  - bdg 13y ago
    Your manner degenerates any productive conversation. Thank you for reaching Goodwin's law first.
    - mjolk 13y ago
      It really doesn't though. The ease of consumption of the political topics is killing the depth of discussion on hackernews and forcing people elsewhere, especially when comments like "wow don't gitmo me bro" are now considered acceptable.
- ics 13y ago
  You mean this? http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3521473/man-who-tweeted-threats-to-president.html#.UkncfyR56QM http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/12/3521473/man-who-... ...
  - bdg 13y ago
    That's one of many. The first one that comes to my mind is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-Bunting-Leigh-Van-Bryan-UK-tourists-arrested-destroy-America-Twitter-jokes.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093796/Emily-Buntin...
x0x0 13y ago
You mean like (what I would call) illegal detainment and warrantless searches of David House, simply because he is a human rights activist and was raising money for Chelsea Bradley's defense? [1] The pigs stole his laptop and usb drive for more than two months, and took a copy of a supporters list. There was no reason to believe this man had anything to do with Chelsea or was doing anything but raising money for her defense. [1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/govt-agrees-to-destroy-data-seized-in-political-interrogation-at-airport/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/govt-agrees-to-de...
4ad 13y ago
If they don't (viewpoint that I agree with), them pissing and moaning on Hacker News is completely pointless.
- angersock 13y ago
  That doesn't mean it's not fun!
brymaster 13y ago
> The NSA likely doesn't give a fuck about your activity of pissing and moaning on hacker news. Yeah, sure... "Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6171836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6171836