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I agree recent job experience is the main issue in computing, but that's a fairly small segment of the job market (~5%). Outside of computing, there just aren't

by mjn 13y ago

I agree recent job experience is the main issue in computing, but that's a fairly small segment of the job market (~5%). Outside of computing, there just aren't that many career paths without degrees anymore, where there's even hypothetically a way to get in on the basis of self-study and experience. The people with the hardest time finding new jobs are the large cohort of blue-collar workers caught in the rapid evaporation of the entire category of "well-paid blue-collar job": they have solid job experience, perhaps 20 years experience doing something mid- to high-skilled in an auto factory, but due to shifts in the economy and automation, that experience is no longer relevant, and they have no formal education in another field to fall back on. One angle could be to try to get some job experience in a different field, but computing and starting a business are two of the few paths where you can just go directly into that. You can get hired as a programmer or sysadmin with no degree, and you can start any kind of business you want with no degree. But Dupont, say, is not going to hire a chemical engineer with no degree, and that goes for a large segment of the economy.

lsc 13y ago
>I agree recent job experience is the main issue in computing, but that's a fairly small segment of the job market (~5%). Outside of computing, there just aren't that many career paths without degrees anymore, where there's even hypothetically a way to get in on the basis of self-study and experience. Is that really true? (that's not rhetorical.) I mean, sure, it's true in the sciences, in part because scientists outside of the computer industry don't have it so great; employers get their pick, but is it true in management/business/sales/accounting? If it is true, how much of that 'truth' has to do with the expectation that it's true rather than any required knowledge? Are folks without those degrees not trying for the position, because they think they need school, first? (I see that a lot in my industry; kids think they need degrees, so they go to school rather than working. I mean, it's hard to argue if the parental units are paying now and won't pay later, but... you don't want to pass up your personal 1997. I think the number of folks in my field who go to school is inflated by the belief that you need a degree to get in.) now, I'm again stepping outside of my immediate sphere of knowledge, but I'm pretty sure degrees are not needed in sales. I mean, you've gotta be able to pretend to be middle class, and a degree helps for that, but... And management? Come to think of it... I can't remember working under guys who didn't have degrees /or/ hadn't gotten their start with their own company, so you might be right there. However, I have worked under guys with degrees from for-profit schools... I have a hard time imagining a degree from one of those places counting in your favor, and I've met a lot of management types who could give the sales folks a run for their money when it came to reading comprehension.

by mjn 13y ago

lsc 13y ago

>I agree recent job experience is the main issue in computing, but that's a fairly small segment of the job market (~5%). Outside of computing, there just aren't that many career paths without degrees anymore, where there's even hypothetically a way to get in on the basis of self-study and experience. Is that really true? (that's not rhetorical.) I mean, sure, it's true in the sciences, in part because scientists outside of the computer industry don't have it so great; employers get their pick, but is it true in management/business/sales/accounting? If it is true, how much of that 'truth' has to do with the expectation that it's true rather than any required knowledge? Are folks without those degrees not trying for the position, because they think they need school, first? (I see that a lot in my industry; kids think they need degrees, so they go to school rather than working. I mean, it's hard to argue if the parental units are paying now and won't pay later, but... you don't want to pass up your personal 1997. I think the number of folks in my field who go to school is inflated by the belief that you need a degree to get in.) now, I'm again stepping outside of my immediate sphere of knowledge, but I'm pretty sure degrees are not needed in sales. I mean, you've gotta be able to pretend to be middle class, and a degree helps for that, but... And management? Come to think of it... I can't remember working under guys who didn't have degrees /or/ hadn't gotten their start with their own company, so you might be right there. However, I have worked under guys with degrees from for-profit schools... I have a hard time imagining a degree from one of those places counting in your favor, and I've met a lot of management types who could give the sales folks a run for their money when it came to reading comprehension.