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I'm willing to contribute but I'm interested in details before doing so. I'm aware that lavabit obviously can't go into details of what they're fighting against

I'm willing to contribute but I'm interested in details before doing so. I'm aware that lavabit obviously can't go into details of what they're fighting against, but some breakdown on what the money will be used for would be nice - is it all for lawyer fees or does it cover other costs? How far is the sum expected to reach, will the 40k be enough to fight until the last round or will we get another fundraiser in a year? What happens to any money that's not being used up for the defense?

matthuggins 13y ago
Yeah, there is basically zero info on where the money is going, I don't know how people (especially people unfamiliar with Lavabit) are going to be encouraged to contribute.
ladar 13y ago
The lawyers setup a non profit and applied for status as a 501c3. All the donations are going towards legal expenses and any related travel...the team is spread out between San Francisco, NYC, DC and of course myself in Dallas.
- bgentry 13y ago
  The Rally.org page doesn't mention that this is a 501c3. Some of us would be able to get our donations matched if that was the case, not to mention tax-deductibility. Is that an oversight, or is it just because the 501c3 has not been finalized yet?
- Xylakant 13y ago
  So who are we actually (legally) donating to: You personally, lavabit as a company or the nonprofit? What does legal expenses include: are the lawyers paid full wages or are they working pro bono or at a discounted rate? Please note that I'm totally fine with all people involved being paid, they do have to earn a living. It might influence the amount of money I'm willing to give though.
  - dmix 13y ago
    Agreed, I donated without a second-thought. But for $30k, we should have a clear explanation (more than a one-liner on HN) on where the money is going exactly. Online donations are notoriously lacking transparency. Nearly as bad as the FBI/NSA (:P).
    - rdl 13y ago
      As long as it's being done through attorneys, that's enough for me. What I cared about was knowing this was legitimate at all, vs. someone just impersonating him, but that seems pretty clear. No member admitted to the bar is going to fuck up something as simple as a legal defense fund, and certainly not over 40k. I'd feel comfortable up to 250k or so without more documentation.
- clamprecht 13y ago
  Just gave $200. Thank you for fighting man. I've fought the feds, I know it's tough. Consider accepting bitcoins, if you don't already. (I didn't see a bitcoin address on the rally.org page).
ladar 13y ago
It's looking like the district court appeal is going to cost between 70k and 100k. I'll need to raise allot more if the fight goes onto the supreme court. I'm told a typical supreme court case will cost 250k and up...
- Xylakant 13y ago
  So is the 40k in the petition just the missing amount for the district court appeal - meaning that another party will cover the gap to 100k - or is that just what you thought was possible on rally.org? Is there any estimate what the chances are that the case will end at district court level?
windexh8er 13y ago
The question you should ask yourself is who you trust more. If it's the NSA then there's no basis for donating. Lavabit was trusted by many, I will trust them in this effort.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  It's not about trust. It's about whether I believe that this is a good investment of money or whether I feel that donating to another entity is a better choice. There's many fights to be fought and so little money to go around. I trust them that they have only the best intentions, but what happens if they don't collect enough funds to go all the way? Did anybody win anything if they have to fold midways because money ran out? 40k wasted that could have been used somewhere else?
Aaronontheweb 13y ago
I just donated $50 - to be honest, most of the stuff in your post is useless minutiae. I don't care how many dollars go to lawyer's fees versus court fees versus blah blah. What I do care about though - how far in the appeals process will this take the case? Answer: $40,000 is not even 1/10th of what you'd need to make it to the supreme court, paying full freight. So assume there's going to be another fund raiser. Should we just walk away from an opportunity to expose the demands of the FISA court in broad daylight at the behest of a superior court because they didn't present an itemized budget and an exact timetable dependent on a bunch of external circumstances beyond their control? Uhh, no - drop $5 and move on.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  See, I care about where I donate my money to. If 40k is 1/10th of what's needed this fundraiser may be just wasted money - I could be better of donating the money to EFF directlyr. If the entity behind the fundraiser is lavabit, the US government could just shut down the company and freeze the funds, again wasted money. I'm not asking for an itemized list or a timetable, I'm just asking for a little information that goes beyond "we'll try and sue and we need money". I'm not assuming bad faith, but is that too much to ask for if somebody tries to collect north of 40k on the internet?
znowi 13y ago
I understand your inner skeptic, but seriously, this investigative zeal might have been more appropriate elsewhere. The guy could have easily folded, like hundreds of other companies, without a word. Instead, he shut down the service to protect its users. I would have given him $30k just for that as a bonus for being awesome. He's a damn hero if you ask me. Along with Aaron and Snowden. They are a few and deserve every support we can give them. Even if they buy a pack of beer with fund money.

matthuggins 13y ago

Yeah, there is basically zero info on where the money is going, I don't know how people (especially people unfamiliar with Lavabit) are going to be encouraged to contribute.

ladar 13y ago

The lawyers setup a non profit and applied for status as a 501c3. All the donations are going towards legal expenses and any related travel...the team is spread out between San Francisco, NYC, DC and of course myself in Dallas.

bgentry 13y ago
The Rally.org page doesn't mention that this is a 501c3. Some of us would be able to get our donations matched if that was the case, not to mention tax-deductibility. Is that an oversight, or is it just because the 501c3 has not been finalized yet?
Xylakant 13y ago
So who are we actually (legally) donating to: You personally, lavabit as a company or the nonprofit? What does legal expenses include: are the lawyers paid full wages or are they working pro bono or at a discounted rate? Please note that I'm totally fine with all people involved being paid, they do have to earn a living. It might influence the amount of money I'm willing to give though.
- dmix 13y ago
  Agreed, I donated without a second-thought. But for $30k, we should have a clear explanation (more than a one-liner on HN) on where the money is going exactly. Online donations are notoriously lacking transparency. Nearly as bad as the FBI/NSA (:P).
  - rdl 13y ago
    As long as it's being done through attorneys, that's enough for me. What I cared about was knowing this was legitimate at all, vs. someone just impersonating him, but that seems pretty clear. No member admitted to the bar is going to fuck up something as simple as a legal defense fund, and certainly not over 40k. I'd feel comfortable up to 250k or so without more documentation.
clamprecht 13y ago
Just gave $200. Thank you for fighting man. I've fought the feds, I know it's tough. Consider accepting bitcoins, if you don't already. (I didn't see a bitcoin address on the rally.org page).

ladar 13y ago

It's looking like the district court appeal is going to cost between 70k and 100k. I'll need to raise allot more if the fight goes onto the supreme court. I'm told a typical supreme court case will cost 250k and up...

Xylakant 13y ago
So is the 40k in the petition just the missing amount for the district court appeal - meaning that another party will cover the gap to 100k - or is that just what you thought was possible on rally.org? Is there any estimate what the chances are that the case will end at district court level?

windexh8er 13y ago

The question you should ask yourself is who you trust more. If it's the NSA then there's no basis for donating. Lavabit was trusted by many, I will trust them in this effort.

Xylakant 13y ago
It's not about trust. It's about whether I believe that this is a good investment of money or whether I feel that donating to another entity is a better choice. There's many fights to be fought and so little money to go around. I trust them that they have only the best intentions, but what happens if they don't collect enough funds to go all the way? Did anybody win anything if they have to fold midways because money ran out? 40k wasted that could have been used somewhere else?

Aaronontheweb 13y ago

I just donated $50 - to be honest, most of the stuff in your post is useless minutiae. I don't care how many dollars go to lawyer's fees versus court fees versus blah blah. What I do care about though - how far in the appeals process will this take the case? Answer: $40,000 is not even 1/10th of what you'd need to make it to the supreme court, paying full freight. So assume there's going to be another fund raiser. Should we just walk away from an opportunity to expose the demands of the FISA court in broad daylight at the behest of a superior court because they didn't present an itemized budget and an exact timetable dependent on a bunch of external circumstances beyond their control? Uhh, no - drop $5 and move on.

Xylakant 13y ago
See, I care about where I donate my money to. If 40k is 1/10th of what's needed this fundraiser may be just wasted money - I could be better of donating the money to EFF directlyr. If the entity behind the fundraiser is lavabit, the US government could just shut down the company and freeze the funds, again wasted money. I'm not asking for an itemized list or a timetable, I'm just asking for a little information that goes beyond "we'll try and sue and we need money". I'm not assuming bad faith, but is that too much to ask for if somebody tries to collect north of 40k on the internet?

znowi 13y ago

I understand your inner skeptic, but seriously, this investigative zeal might have been more appropriate elsewhere. The guy could have easily folded, like hundreds of other companies, without a word. Instead, he shut down the service to protect its users. I would have given him $30k just for that as a bonus for being awesome. He's a damn hero if you ask me. Along with Aaron and Snowden. They are a few and deserve every support we can give them. Even if they buy a pack of beer with fund money.