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Lavabit needs your help to fight for the right to keep emails private
- ianmcstorm 13y agoThe dog will help, for sure.
- mnml_ 13y agoLavabit didn't even bother refunding clients, why should we help them now ?
- fennecfoxen 13y agoI dunno; an ongoing interest in freedom or something like that?
- gregd 13y agoCan you link me to any examples of customers who didn't get any refunds? I'm only finding overwhelming support for his shutdown from previous customers...
- prg318 13y agoI did not receive a refund for my lavabit service that was interrupted, but after seeing the situation I really did not mind (I may not have received a prorated $3 of my $8 yearly subscription fee - I think there are much bigger issues at stake here). The lavabit shutdown is even more of a reason to give a privacy-respecting company support. Godspeed lavabit!
- mnml_ 13y agoI did not get my refund.
- tkellogg 13y agoBecause constitutional protection and human rights are greater causes than the few bucks you lost. Lavabit didn't have to shut down, they could have handed over your private emails, but they didn't. I'd say they've more than earned what you paid.
- Anonmattymous 13y agoSaying that handing over money to them somehow = human rights isn't much better than the people who say that PRISM = protection. Just because LavaBit's shtick and rallying cry is around freedom doesn't mean that they aren't a crap company or that they are telling the whole truth about what has gone down. For all we know the founder is just some wacky libertarian taking an opportunity to give the gov some bad press.
- smtddr 13y ago> Saying that handing over money to them somehow = human rights isn't much better than the people who say that PRISM = protection. I think it's MUCH MUCH BETTER. > For all we know the founder is just some wacky libertarian taking an opportunity to give the gov some bad press. Needless FUD. For all I know you're an alien from outer space, for all I know we're all in The Matrix, for all I know everyone here is an automation-script and HackerNews is an experiment in how long they can keep me, smtddr, believing that I'm talking with real humans. You can't live life in FUD. I think it's more likely that you're a NSA/USgov shill who just created this account to post this comment... than the Lavabit founders set up all this encryption to a point that even Snowden trusted them, just to turn around aand give the government some bad press. And seriously, "wacky libertarian"? Define that for me. And "just to give gov some bad press?" Why? What do libs have to gain by giving USgov a bad name just for the sake of it? The USgov has given itself a bad enough name just by the NSA leaks, they don't need any help from any "wacky libs".
- danielweber 13y agoThere's no part of "constitutional protection and human rights" that forbade them from refunding customers' money for a service the customers paid for that they then stopped offering. (NB: I have no idea if they did/did not refund any money; I'm taking it as a given for this comment but I'm completely relying on the comment chain for the unverified story.)
- smtddr 13y agoIn lieu of what's going on, I think anyone expecting their money back should re-examine priorities. Clearly Lavabit needs the money for a cause that, frankly, trumps anyone's concerns about getting their money back. I completely support them taking any cash that's available, risking the anger of the people who would dare to be upset about it. In short, I think making the OP upset is a negligible problem compared to the USgov to getting their way.
- wissler 13y agoWhy should lavabit be on the hook? Their operations were destroyed by a rogue government agency, ergo that agency should be on the hook.
- kamjam 13y agoCould the same be said for MegaUpload? (Although we know it's a totally different story with them...)
- dingaling 13y agoThe contents of e-mail hosted by third parties will always be subject to legal demand. Even if Mr Levinson wins his action against NSLs, that will remain true. Non-NSL warrants conform to the Constitutional protections and will continue to be served and fulfilled.
- devx 13y agoProbably, but it would still be a huge win, if we could make it so they could only get e-mails with a normal warrant, from a normal Court (none of that secret courts/"millions of records-are-relevant nonsense). Also, I don't know if it's currently "legal" or not to demand companies to keep encryption keys of what they're encrypting, but I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional. So encrypting communications end to end should be constitutional/legal. The companies can still do that (if they have the will/customer pressure). As for coerced backdoors, like they tried with Lavabit, that's just disgustingly immoral, and definitely unconstitutional.
- danielweber 13y ago> if we could make it so they could only get e-mails with a normal warrant, from a normal Court That is probably a legislative challenge, not a legal challenge. Is he setting up a PAC?
- dingaling 13y agoI agree it would be a monumental victory against secret demands, but if a non-sysadmin layman read that rally.org page he might believe that the result that all e-mails would be 'safe' forever. You make an interesting point about encryption keys; it is unconstitutional to demand that an individual hand-over his keys in a speculative manner, but is not considered self-incrimination if the prosecutor knows that the relevant document is encrypted. for example, if the individual boasts that 'The Man can't read my encrypted tax evasion plan'. But I have no idea how that reads-across to a corporation.
- ladar 13y agoThird parties like Lavabit can be forced to turn over user keys... which is why I encrypted a user's private key with the user's password.
- pvnick 13y agoJust gave $25, I hope to see Mr. Levinson succeed! It would definitely be a very meaningful symbolic victory against the surveillance state.
- Xylakant 13y agoI'm willing to contribute but I'm interested in details before doing so. I'm aware that lavabit obviously can't go into details of what they're fighting against, but some breakdown on what the money will be used for would be nice - is it all for lawyer fees or does it cover other costs? How far is the sum expected to reach, will the 40k be enough to fight until the last round or will we get another fundraiser in a year? What happens to any money that's not being used up for the defense?
- matthuggins 13y agoYeah, there is basically zero info on where the money is going, I don't know how people (especially people unfamiliar with Lavabit) are going to be encouraged to contribute.
- ladar 13y agoThe lawyers setup a non profit and applied for status as a 501c3. All the donations are going towards legal expenses and any related travel...the team is spread out between San Francisco, NYC, DC and of course myself in Dallas.
- bgentry 13y agoThe Rally.org page doesn't mention that this is a 501c3. Some of us would be able to get our donations matched if that was the case, not to mention tax-deductibility. Is that an oversight, or is it just because the 501c3 has not been finalized yet?
- Xylakant 13y agoSo who are we actually (legally) donating to: You personally, lavabit as a company or the nonprofit? What does legal expenses include: are the lawyers paid full wages or are they working pro bono or at a discounted rate? Please note that I'm totally fine with all people involved being paid, they do have to earn a living. It might influence the amount of money I'm willing to give though.
- dmix 13y ago
- rmc 13y agoIs it only "the American people" who this person wants emails to be private? That's what they're title says, and they talk about the US Constitution whose privacy restrictions only apply to US citizens (AFAIR). Go beyond the fourth amendment.
- bennyg 13y agoClever marketing to pull at heartstrings. Of course they want email everywhere to be private.
- stekoz 13y agoAnd yet he makes a point of being able to run an American company.
- ladar 13y agoPersonally I think bulk collection is wrong regardless of where a person is, or what passport they carry. But the constitution only protects our right to privacy on American soil... Since Lavabit operates in the US and we can't tell which of our users is an American, and which are foreign, I'm of the opinion they all have the same rights.
- rmc 13y agoPersonally I think bulk collection is wrong regardless of where a person is, or what passport they carry. I agree. But the [US] constitution only protects our right to privacy on American soil... I know. ☹
- sliverstorm 13y agoI forget the exact slogans from wartimes past, but you can't win on the battle front until you've won the home front.
- olleicua 13y agoWhat does lavabit actually do?
- ufo 13y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit
- sethbannon 13y ago134 upvotes but only 34 contributors. If you truly support privacy rights, please support those fighting for them. Donate.
- darkchasma 13y agoI support the cause, as I believe all people should have the right to privacy. However, I'm not American, and we have our own battles. Increasing awareness and visibility however, is something we all can do.
- wazoox 13y agoIt asks me to log in with Facebook (oh, the irony). I don't have an FB account, and I suppose I'm not alone among the potential supporters.
- bdg 13y agoSuper. I'll just neatly put my name next to a list of people (which the NSA has connected to) who oppose the surveillance state ... and hope I don't get black bagged to your fancy Cuban torture prisons if I ever cross into the USA.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mjolk 13y ago>"and hope I don't get black bagged to your fancy Cuban torture prisons if I ever cross into the USA." Oh give me a break with the hyperbole. The NSA likely doesn't give a fuck about your activity of pissing and moaning on hacker news.
- bandushrew 13y agoHow do you know? or do you mean that you hope the NSA doesn't give a fuck?
- jhh 13y agoI would contribute if I didn't need to give out my credit card details. I wish that they supported paypal or payment via amazon.
- gr3yh47 13y agolavabit.com has a paypal donate link
- tehwalrus 13y agoI had just paid for a years subscription when they shut down - I had signed up because they cared about privacy, and boy was I not disappointed. Join me in donating (even/especially you other non-US citizen HN'ers), to prove PRISM et al unconstitutional, and preserve all our rights!
- asn0 13y agoHow do I contribute using Paypal or a CC#, without having to give rally.org all my personal info?
- ladar 13y agoTheir is a Paypal donation link on lavabit.com...
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoI sent a few bucks his way a month or so ago, but it was returned to me.
- gr3yh47 13y agoHe should contact the ACLU + EFF instead of asking for donations. But hey maybe the donations will help too
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- joshlegs 13y ago> What if you filed for bankruptcy, and your emails to your lawyer became public, humiliating your family? bankruptcies are public anyway.
- Zoepfli 13y ago"Let's rally for Lavabit to fight for the privacy rights of the American people." What about the privacy rights of the 95% of the world's population that are not American people?
- l33tbro 13y agoI'm trying to get in contact with Ladar or somebody from Lavabit about fundraising. Does anyone know the best way to conact him?
- rocky1138 13y ago"Let's rally for Lavabit to fight for the privacy rights of the American people." What about the rest of us?
- mukundmr 13y agoWhy spend all that effort in restarting Lavabit as an American firm? There is plenty of room outside of the US for running a secure email firm.
- prirun 13y agoFrom whois lavabit.com, ie, already public info: Domain Name:LAVABIT.ORG Created On:21-Jul-2005 21:45:20 UTC Registrant Name:Ladar Levison Registrant Organization:Lavabit LLC Registrant Street1:3930 McKinney Ave #576 Registrant City:Dallas Registrant State/Province:Texas Registrant Postal Code:75204 Registrant Country:US Mail him a check if you want to help and don't want to use electronic means. Sure, it could in theory be a scam or waste of money. But we KNOW the NSA is a scam, a waste of money, and a danger to our values. Personally, I trust him. I received a hand-written note thanking me for a donation. Good luck Ladar!
- sdoering 13y agoWhat strikes me odd is the notion, that I as a foreigner do not have any rights and nearly nobody in your country seems to care (at least so it seems to me). Even the Lavabit-Founder just wants to fight for the "rights of the American people". Don't the American people get it, that what this form of Chauvinism really brings is bringing the world up against your country? Until America recognizes, that it is not the pride of creation, this sentiment will only grow and Americans worldwide will be regarded critically. With every politician, that promotes this chauvinism, being elected, everyone in the US is seen once more as a supporter of these views. Not the best idea in the long term I fear.