4 ms·

Well, it is hard but not "incredibly" hard. Not all clients there are bottom feeders, even though the majority probably are. Even then, it still definitely beat

Well, it is hard but not "incredibly" hard. Not all clients there are bottom feeders, even though the majority probably are. Even then, it still definitely beats being an employee on a fixed salary in most "developed" countries. Someone told me that the average programmer in Poland makes 800 EUR/month. That doesn't sound spectacular either ;-)

pjmlp 13y ago
In Portugal the minimum wage is currently 485€ per month, before taxes. With a degree one usually one starts at around 1000€ per month and grows from there. You have to be already quite senior to even dream of the 2000€ barrier, in a few selected companies. However with the current economical situation, many people are quite happy if they happen to just get something.
- mantas 13y ago
  That's funny. Up there in Lithuania 1000eur is average salary for non-senior developers. Senior developers may easily get 2000eur in a good company. Or they're not that senior. 3000eur/mo is not unheard of for really good seniors. The main (uneducated) public is in the same spot though, with minimum wage of 290euros. Good time for IT guys.
  - kutakbash 13y ago
    Strangely, this is not so different from Belarus as you would imagine.
tartle 13y ago
850 EUR is average salary in Poland (before taxation). Programmers would usually get more, at least in big cities.
- michas 13y ago
  Programmers can make a lot more: starting at 1500 EUR (as junior developer) up to 4 000 EUR (minority of senior developers). That's also before taxation
troels 13y ago
Living expenses are presumably different though. So it's a bit hard to just compare salary directly.
- dusker 13y ago
  They aren't anymore. I've lived both in Poland and countries in western EU, Netherlands be one example, and honestly everyday product prices are very similar. The major difference is housing although Poland is very similar to Berlin housing wise, now compare the average salaries...
  - tartle 13y ago
    Costs of living haven't been that much different for a decade or so. The only reason most businesses pay poor salaries to Polish workers is - because they can (high level of unemployment + low percentage of workers organised in trade unions + low minimum wage). Living expenses don't differ much between Warsaw and Berlin. Programmers' wages are an exception, because - unlike most of the population - they have way out from the local labour market.
  - troels 13y ago
    Berlin is a bit of a special case though. Living expenses are very low compared to other "rich" EU countries.
    - _delirium 13y ago
      Even compared to other big cities in Germany; you won't find Berlin rental prices in Munich or Frankfurt.
    - dataminer 13y ago
      What is the reason for such low living expenses in Berlin?
      - barrkel 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_population2.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_population2.svg

pjmlp 13y ago

In Portugal the minimum wage is currently 485€ per month, before taxes. With a degree one usually one starts at around 1000€ per month and grows from there. You have to be already quite senior to even dream of the 2000€ barrier, in a few selected companies. However with the current economical situation, many people are quite happy if they happen to just get something.

mantas 13y ago
That's funny. Up there in Lithuania 1000eur is average salary for non-senior developers. Senior developers may easily get 2000eur in a good company. Or they're not that senior. 3000eur/mo is not unheard of for really good seniors. The main (uneducated) public is in the same spot though, with minimum wage of 290euros. Good time for IT guys.
- kutakbash 13y ago
  Strangely, this is not so different from Belarus as you would imagine.

tartle 13y ago

850 EUR is average salary in Poland (before taxation). Programmers would usually get more, at least in big cities.

michas 13y ago
Programmers can make a lot more: starting at 1500 EUR (as junior developer) up to 4 000 EUR (minority of senior developers). That's also before taxation

troels 13y ago

Living expenses are presumably different though. So it's a bit hard to just compare salary directly.

dusker 13y ago
They aren't anymore. I've lived both in Poland and countries in western EU, Netherlands be one example, and honestly everyday product prices are very similar. The major difference is housing although Poland is very similar to Berlin housing wise, now compare the average salaries...
- tartle 13y ago
  Costs of living haven't been that much different for a decade or so. The only reason most businesses pay poor salaries to Polish workers is - because they can (high level of unemployment + low percentage of workers organised in trade unions + low minimum wage). Living expenses don't differ much between Warsaw and Berlin. Programmers' wages are an exception, because - unlike most of the population - they have way out from the local labour market.
- troels 13y ago
  Berlin is a bit of a special case though. Living expenses are very low compared to other "rich" EU countries.
  - _delirium 13y ago
    Even compared to other big cities in Germany; you won't find Berlin rental prices in Munich or Frankfurt.
  - dataminer 13y ago
    What is the reason for such low living expenses in Berlin?
    - barrkel 13y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_population2.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_population2.svg