4 ms·

You're showing your bias with the ranges you've chosen. Capping the poll at "$200k+" is effectively a statement that you don't believe in the existence of cons

You're showing your bias with the ranges you've chosen. Capping the poll at "$200k+" is effectively a statement that you don't believe in the existence of consultants who charge north of $100/hr and work close to 2000 hours per year. A fair chunk of your initial datapoints are challenging that assumption.

_delirium 13y ago
I don't see how it implies that he doesn't believe people make more than that; it just means he isn't interested in finer distinctions above that threshold. One could say the same for the $20k minimum: there are certainly people who make $5k or $12k also, but he's grouped them together into essentially "make very little money", just like he's grouped $200k+ into essentially "make a lot of money".
csomar 13y ago
As _delirium[1] mentioned, I can't detail every range (there are more people making $20k or less). At the moment, people making $200k or more are 15% only. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6464829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6464829
- jasonkester 13y ago
  It's still your second largest group. At the time I wrote the above, it was 70% of your respondents. Stick a >$300k on there, and I wouldn't be surprised if a big slice of that group shifts right over to it. Incidentally, in response to _delirium, we really need to stop thinking of $200k as "a lot of money". That's an achievable wage for a good developer. Describing it in terms normally reserved for fantasy rather than reality is not particularly helpful.
  - _delirium 13y ago
    Why do we "need" to start doing something that's false? $200k+ is a lot of money. It's a top-5% household income in the U.S. (and that's including dual-earning households). You can live a very good life just about everywhere with it. I live a very good life in an expensive city on less! Heck, it's a very good income even if you limit yourself only to technologists in the Valley, a rather rarified social milieu: most Googlers make less. Sure, you can make more than that, but in a general discussion about freelancing, it's not all that interesting to break down fine gradations of the upper-middle-class, which can be usefully bundled into the category of "people who are very successful at consulting/freelancing". Heck, I'd probably put the cutoff at $150k+ if I were designing a poll, since above that threshold you are no longer trying to make it as a full-time consultant who can support a good lifestyle. I do think it could be interesting to break out the truly wealthy, adding a separate category for $1m+. But there isn't really any interesting difference between $200k and $300k.
    - walshemj 13y ago
      its 50% and long term in terms of retirement and savings an extra 100k makes a hell of a difference.
      - _delirium 13y ago
        Sure, it's more money, but it's more or less the same social class and economic position. It's enough to be teetering on the top end of upper-middle-class (compared to engineers making $100k-$150k salaries), but not enough to be truly wealthy, like people who cash out large IPO shares, or consultants/lawyers/etc. raking in 7 figures.
        walshemj 13y ago
        Class is not the same as how rich you are :-) there are plenty of poor DAR WASPs who will look down on these immigrant billionaires (some of whom are sons of Abraham nudge nudge) Bill G would be seen as "one of us" Larry Ellison much less's so.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - phamilton 13y ago
      The difference between $150k and $200k is often home ownership. Personally that's a pretty big difference to me. I'd like to see numbers about consultants who can support a family of 4 and a mortgage on the peninsula.
      - siddboots 13y ago
        The point is that if you earn enough to live comfortably, buy land, and support three dependents, you are making a lot of money by any standard.
  - csomar 13y ago
    I did. Two hours later, only one person upvoted it and around 20 person upvoted the $200k+.
- giarc 13y ago
  It's important to have equal bin sizes as they are called. When you produce a visual representation of the data, unequal bin sizes produces visual bias.
walshemj 13y ago
I know an ex CTO (in the mobile space) who has charged several thousand dollars for an hours work.
- wallflower 13y ago
  I am very curious what exactly they did. In general, performance optimization?
  - walshemj 13y ago
    I think it was very high level strategy type for 4g I think.
rorrr2 13y ago
Also hourly rate is infinitely more useful. Working full time at $50/hr is a completely different lifestyle from working 20 hours/week at $100/hr.

_delirium 13y ago

I don't see how it implies that he doesn't believe people make more than that; it just means he isn't interested in finer distinctions above that threshold. One could say the same for the $20k minimum: there are certainly people who make $5k or $12k also, but he's grouped them together into essentially "make very little money", just like he's grouped $200k+ into essentially "make a lot of money".

csomar 13y ago

As _delirium[1] mentioned, I can't detail every range (there are more people making $20k or less). At the moment, people making $200k or more are 15% only. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6464829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6464829

jasonkester 13y ago
It's still your second largest group. At the time I wrote the above, it was 70% of your respondents. Stick a >$300k on there, and I wouldn't be surprised if a big slice of that group shifts right over to it. Incidentally, in response to _delirium, we really need to stop thinking of $200k as "a lot of money". That's an achievable wage for a good developer. Describing it in terms normally reserved for fantasy rather than reality is not particularly helpful.
- _delirium 13y ago
  Why do we "need" to start doing something that's false? $200k+ is a lot of money. It's a top-5% household income in the U.S. (and that's including dual-earning households). You can live a very good life just about everywhere with it. I live a very good life in an expensive city on less! Heck, it's a very good income even if you limit yourself only to technologists in the Valley, a rather rarified social milieu: most Googlers make less. Sure, you can make more than that, but in a general discussion about freelancing, it's not all that interesting to break down fine gradations of the upper-middle-class, which can be usefully bundled into the category of "people who are very successful at consulting/freelancing". Heck, I'd probably put the cutoff at $150k+ if I were designing a poll, since above that threshold you are no longer trying to make it as a full-time consultant who can support a good lifestyle. I do think it could be interesting to break out the truly wealthy, adding a separate category for $1m+. But there isn't really any interesting difference between $200k and $300k.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    its 50% and long term in terms of retirement and savings an extra 100k makes a hell of a difference.
    - _delirium 13y ago
      Sure, it's more money, but it's more or less the same social class and economic position. It's enough to be teetering on the top end of upper-middle-class (compared to engineers making $100k-$150k salaries), but not enough to be truly wealthy, like people who cash out large IPO shares, or consultants/lawyers/etc. raking in 7 figures.
      - walshemj 13y ago
        Class is not the same as how rich you are :-) there are plenty of poor DAR WASPs who will look down on these immigrant billionaires (some of whom are sons of Abraham nudge nudge) Bill G would be seen as "one of us" Larry Ellison much less's so.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
  - phamilton 13y ago
    The difference between $150k and $200k is often home ownership. Personally that's a pretty big difference to me. I'd like to see numbers about consultants who can support a family of 4 and a mortgage on the peninsula.
    - siddboots 13y ago
      The point is that if you earn enough to live comfortably, buy land, and support three dependents, you are making a lot of money by any standard.
- csomar 13y ago
  I did. Two hours later, only one person upvoted it and around 20 person upvoted the $200k+.
giarc 13y ago
It's important to have equal bin sizes as they are called. When you produce a visual representation of the data, unequal bin sizes produces visual bias.

walshemj 13y ago

I know an ex CTO (in the mobile space) who has charged several thousand dollars for an hours work.

wallflower 13y ago
I am very curious what exactly they did. In general, performance optimization?
- walshemj 13y ago
  I think it was very high level strategy type for 4g I think.

rorrr2 13y ago

Also hourly rate is infinitely more useful. Working full time at $50/hr is a completely different lifestyle from working 20 hours/week at $100/hr.