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... has not yet delivered things like... Github http://gitlab.org/ http://gitlab.org/ Open source software alone can't spin up hardware. It makes sense to pa

by ISL 13y ago

... has not yet delivered things like... Github http://gitlab.org/ http://gitlab.org/ Open source software alone can't spin up hardware. It makes sense to pay someone for providing a physical service. Github is getting paid already for developing what will someday influence a definitive open-source interface to git and collaboration. Photoshop is really nice software. The GIMP is too, and perpetually improving. Closed-source programs are sometimes the vanguard to show the world that a particular idea is important and useful. Any sufficiently useful closed-source program will be cloned into open source in today's environment. 15-20 years ago, the world had a plethora of closed-source options for a gui-based OS. These days, open-source offerings compete on near-equal footing. It's almost as easy as typing: apt-get install debian on any keyboard anywhere to get access to a functional GNU/Linux system. A lot of closed-source programmers earned a lot of money showing us what features of that system have mass appeal. Is a government-funded public cloud not beholden to the government which funds it?

frozenport 13y ago
I think you are overly optimistic, LibreOffice remains less functional than Office 97 and GIMP is a study in bad GUI design - not to mention the rest of the Creative Suite being missing in action. I was recently shocked to learn that I can't rotate text inside a table. Also LibreOffice at one point included the full source code of Thunderbird, some OSS is well written but I am not convinced that it is better at the architecture level when compared to Microsoft's offerings. After 15-20 years the OpenSource user-land remains confusingly fragmented. Multiple monitors are a pain and applications don't have the understanding of full-screen. Working with icons on the desktops was hard, so now we have launchers, and now we are doing away with the desktop all together - my theory being that drag-able icon interaction was too hard to implement. Distro's are fragmented by their philosophies on software rather then their GUI's - resulting in horrible user experiences. Why the hell does Linux mint come in so many flavors? Drivers remain a problem, I recently had to recompile modify the kernel because my elan mouse was being detected incorrectly. Ubuntu has made large leaps but I have noticed that their GUI burns power and shutters on systems that are about 5 years old. Also, remember when computers could hibernate? But, I use Gentoo for work, 'cause kcachegrind is good. I think OSS has delivered something unique to its users but it is whole different from a general purpose operating system like Windows. I think the comparison between Latex and Word is a good comparison between he OpenSource and propriety world. When people speak to highlight the progress of OSS I am tempted to ask: How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait?
- phaemon 13y ago
  What an appalling Gish gallop. Well, as usual, the only thing to do is point out the first wrong thing. Conveniently, everything you said was wrong, so I can just pick the first clear statement you made: you can rotate text within a table.
  - frozenport 13y ago
    http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/3990/how-to-rotate-in-text-documents/ http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/3990/how-to-rotate-in... also https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48804 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48804 --edit, not sure why links to the bugzilla describing the issue are giving me downvotes... --edit 2 : I actually hit this bug when making a flyer, the bottom had little flaps with our groups email. It broke PowerPoint compatibility, and I had to reboot into Windows. --edit 3: You made laugh when you mentioned that "You can't invert the text quite so easily, you have to draw a rectangle with text in which can then be rotated any arbitrary degree." That sums up whats wrong with many user side facing programs. Too bad LibreOffice doesn't support pipes :-)
    - phaemon 13y ago
      Probably because both those links specifically say you can rotate text 90 and 270 degrees. You can't invert the text quite so easily, you have to draw a rectangle with text in which can then be rotated any arbitrary degree. Next time you trawl bug reports looking for anti-Linux material, try reading them more carefully.
      - clarry 13y ago
        Did you just equate Linux with OSS?
        phaemon 13y ago
        No.
- 13y ago
abalone 13y ago
> Any sufficiently useful closed-source program will be cloned into open source in today's environment. That is a parasitic and unsustainable model. Even if you could find enough volunteers to copy the work of every bit of successful commercial software, that original design and development work still needs to be funded. Other commenters have noted the quality situation of many of the cloner projects out there. Even cloning takes work and sustainable, quality work needs remuneration.

by ISL 13y ago

frozenport 13y ago

I think you are overly optimistic, LibreOffice remains less functional than Office 97 and GIMP is a study in bad GUI design - not to mention the rest of the Creative Suite being missing in action. I was recently shocked to learn that I can't rotate text inside a table. Also LibreOffice at one point included the full source code of Thunderbird, some OSS is well written but I am not convinced that it is better at the architecture level when compared to Microsoft's offerings. After 15-20 years the OpenSource user-land remains confusingly fragmented. Multiple monitors are a pain and applications don't have the understanding of full-screen. Working with icons on the desktops was hard, so now we have launchers, and now we are doing away with the desktop all together - my theory being that drag-able icon interaction was too hard to implement. Distro's are fragmented by their philosophies on software rather then their GUI's - resulting in horrible user experiences. Why the hell does Linux mint come in so many flavors? Drivers remain a problem, I recently had to recompile modify the kernel because my elan mouse was being detected incorrectly. Ubuntu has made large leaps but I have noticed that their GUI burns power and shutters on systems that are about 5 years old. Also, remember when computers could hibernate? But, I use Gentoo for work, 'cause kcachegrind is good. I think OSS has delivered something unique to its users but it is whole different from a general purpose operating system like Windows. I think the comparison between Latex and Word is a good comparison between he OpenSource and propriety world. When people speak to highlight the progress of OSS I am tempted to ask: How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait? How many years do I have to wait?

phaemon 13y ago
What an appalling Gish gallop. Well, as usual, the only thing to do is point out the first wrong thing. Conveniently, everything you said was wrong, so I can just pick the first clear statement you made: you can rotate text within a table.
- frozenport 13y ago
  http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/3990/how-to-rotate-in-text-documents/ http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/3990/how-to-rotate-in... also https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48804 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48804 --edit, not sure why links to the bugzilla describing the issue are giving me downvotes... --edit 2 : I actually hit this bug when making a flyer, the bottom had little flaps with our groups email. It broke PowerPoint compatibility, and I had to reboot into Windows. --edit 3: You made laugh when you mentioned that "You can't invert the text quite so easily, you have to draw a rectangle with text in which can then be rotated any arbitrary degree." That sums up whats wrong with many user side facing programs. Too bad LibreOffice doesn't support pipes :-)
  - phaemon 13y ago
    Probably because both those links specifically say you can rotate text 90 and 270 degrees. You can't invert the text quite so easily, you have to draw a rectangle with text in which can then be rotated any arbitrary degree. Next time you trawl bug reports looking for anti-Linux material, try reading them more carefully.
    - clarry 13y ago
      Did you just equate Linux with OSS?
      - phaemon 13y ago
        No.
13y ago

abalone 13y ago

> Any sufficiently useful closed-source program will be cloned into open source in today's environment. That is a parasitic and unsustainable model. Even if you could find enough volunteers to copy the work of every bit of successful commercial software, that original design and development work still needs to be funded. Other commenters have noted the quality situation of many of the cloner projects out there. Even cloning takes work and sustainable, quality work needs remuneration.