4 ms·

At this point the fine is still imaginary. Nobody has a $1000 fine in their mailbox yet. People are used to getting money back from the IRS. Most people don'

At this point the fine is still imaginary. Nobody has a $1000 fine in their mailbox yet. People are used to getting money back from the IRS. Most people don't understand what a bill from the IRS means. How many people even know there will be a fine? Has Obama talked about the fine yet? Also, even if you apply for the subsidy, you'll be paying full price for an expensive plan in the meantime. A family that's just getting by (that's why they are uninsured) it's going to be much more affordable to get a high-deductible plan and forget Obamacare altogether. If you're just getting by, you're not planning your finances a year in advance for when the subsidy check might come in the mail. The uninsured are thinking about next month, not a year from now. What percentage of people are sure they will get that government subsidy check? You're assuming uninsured people have extra money saved to pay for a full-price insurance plan right now.

bbatsell 13y ago
> Also, even if you apply for the subsidy, you'll be paying full price for an expensive plan in the meantime. This isn't true. The subsidy is estimated and applied when you sign up for a plan, and your premiums are adjusted to account for the estimated subsidy: https://www.healthcare.gov/will-i-qualify-to-save-on-monthly-premiums/ https://www.healthcare.gov/will-i-qualify-to-save-on-monthly...
- pjbrunet 13y ago
  That's interesting but according to your link, Advance Premium Tax Credit <> Refundable Credit. In practice, what will be the difference? How does an existing high-deductible plan compare to a Bronze plan with the Advanced Premium Credit applied? If it's significantly more coverage, if it's significantly cheaper, if it's easy to sign up for, then it might be attractive to that percentage of uninsured smart enough to jump through the extra hoops, if they actually want insurance, if they can afford a Bronze plan with the "advance" applied. That's a lot of ifs. I think a large percentage of uninsured will opt for the status quo (do nothing) that's just human nature. According to your link, you have to file your tax return to get the difference (refundable - advanced) paid to you. What percentage of uninsured file tax returns?
MaysonL 13y ago
Take a look at what happened with the individual mandate in Massachusetts. About 1% of the population (48,000 in 2009) paid the penalty, set at 50% of the minimum insurance premium. Even assuming that the rest of the country has people stupider than Massachusetts, and more ornery, it's really not going to be anywhere near as bad as you're predicting.
- pjbrunet 13y ago
  I predicted 5% of uninsured who don't want insurance will pay the fine. About 15% don't have health insurance. If it turns out 1% of the population pays an IRS fine, that's even more people than I predicted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_coverage_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_coverage_in_th...
  - MaysonL 13y ago
    No, you said, and I copy-paste quote "90% will do nothing and get a $500 fine from the IRS."
    - pjbrunet 13y ago
      1. I said 90% of uninsured. That would be 90% of 15% of the population. Clearly I'm not saying 90% of the population will get fined. But my estimate will be way off, see #2. 2. Getting fined (what I said) and paying a fine (what you said) are totally different. Only 41% of people file tax returns. You can bet that percentage is much higher among the uninsured. So right off the bat, over half the uninsured should be fined. Those people were in my 90% estimate but there's really no way to fine them. I just did some searching and it apprears you are "exempt from the requirement to obtain minimum essential coverage...if you are not a U.S. citizen, a U.S. national or an alien lawfully present in the U.S." http://www.irs.gov/uac/Questions-and-Answers-on-the-Individual-Shared-Responsibility-Provision http://www.irs.gov/uac/Questions-and-Answers-on-the-Individu... This is also interesting: "44% of (people who file taxes) were unaware that they would face a penalty for not purchasing coverage." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/15/how-hr-block-plans-to-capitalize-on-obamacare/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/15/h...

bbatsell 13y ago

> Also, even if you apply for the subsidy, you'll be paying full price for an expensive plan in the meantime. This isn't true. The subsidy is estimated and applied when you sign up for a plan, and your premiums are adjusted to account for the estimated subsidy: https://www.healthcare.gov/will-i-qualify-to-save-on-monthly-premiums/ https://www.healthcare.gov/will-i-qualify-to-save-on-monthly...

pjbrunet 13y ago
That's interesting but according to your link, Advance Premium Tax Credit <> Refundable Credit. In practice, what will be the difference? How does an existing high-deductible plan compare to a Bronze plan with the Advanced Premium Credit applied? If it's significantly more coverage, if it's significantly cheaper, if it's easy to sign up for, then it might be attractive to that percentage of uninsured smart enough to jump through the extra hoops, if they actually want insurance, if they can afford a Bronze plan with the "advance" applied. That's a lot of ifs. I think a large percentage of uninsured will opt for the status quo (do nothing) that's just human nature. According to your link, you have to file your tax return to get the difference (refundable - advanced) paid to you. What percentage of uninsured file tax returns?

MaysonL 13y ago

Take a look at what happened with the individual mandate in Massachusetts. About 1% of the population (48,000 in 2009) paid the penalty, set at 50% of the minimum insurance premium. Even assuming that the rest of the country has people stupider than Massachusetts, and more ornery, it's really not going to be anywhere near as bad as you're predicting.

pjbrunet 13y ago
I predicted 5% of uninsured who don't want insurance will pay the fine. About 15% don't have health insurance. If it turns out 1% of the population pays an IRS fine, that's even more people than I predicted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_coverage_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_coverage_in_th...
- MaysonL 13y ago
  No, you said, and I copy-paste quote "90% will do nothing and get a $500 fine from the IRS."
  - pjbrunet 13y ago
    1. I said 90% of uninsured. That would be 90% of 15% of the population. Clearly I'm not saying 90% of the population will get fined. But my estimate will be way off, see #2. 2. Getting fined (what I said) and paying a fine (what you said) are totally different. Only 41% of people file tax returns. You can bet that percentage is much higher among the uninsured. So right off the bat, over half the uninsured should be fined. Those people were in my 90% estimate but there's really no way to fine them. I just did some searching and it apprears you are "exempt from the requirement to obtain minimum essential coverage...if you are not a U.S. citizen, a U.S. national or an alien lawfully present in the U.S." http://www.irs.gov/uac/Questions-and-Answers-on-the-Individual-Shared-Responsibility-Provision http://www.irs.gov/uac/Questions-and-Answers-on-the-Individu... This is also interesting: "44% of (people who file taxes) were unaware that they would face a penalty for not purchasing coverage." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/15/how-hr-block-plans-to-capitalize-on-obamacare/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/15/h...