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What people don't understand is that those public individuals (the front-end, if you want) just doesn't matter. If Alexander didn't exist, it would be just anot

What people don't understand is that those public individuals (the front-end, if you want) just doesn't matter. If Alexander didn't exist, it would be just another name here and everything would be the same. People who decide things, they are behind the curtains, mastering their puppets. Those two parties that you think you vote for one of them is theatre of democracy, they are two hands of the one evil. You would say this is another conspiracy theory? You would've said it about Snowden's revelations one year ago. Open you eyes. Those who have power, those several families, banks and the corporations, they will do everything and anything to preserve their power and control over the people.

DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
I've known about or guessed at the Snowden revelations for years now, and I think you're personifying a complex system by saying "Surely some person must be in charge!" The truth is that it actually seems to just be a clusterfuck of many people interacting, each pursuing their own (usually ambivalent to good) intentions, and that no one really is running the show. Which in many ways, is more terrifying: if someone is in charge, then all we have to do is change who is in charge to fix the problem; but if the problem is that even with good intentions, there are problems with scale and complexity that mangle them in to monstrosities like this... what can we do about it? You can always behead a bad king, but what do you do about human nature and the problems of scale?
- droopyEyelids 13y ago
  I'm glad to see other people thinking this way, because I believe this is the problem we're actually dealing with. Combine that with the fact that this cat can not be stuffed back in its bag, and all I can think of doing is hoping the surveillance is complete enough and disseminated widely enough that no one asshole or cabal of assholes can seize control.
  - DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
    I mean, I would argue that any solutions have to be found in restructuring things to be much more localized and decentralized. A return to city-states, for instance, would deal with the problem of global super powers that can spy on huge swathes of the population, because it would require many independent groups who all have their own self-interests to collaborate in a way that lessens their individual power. To some degree, the kind of spying we see now is only possible because the balance between the federal government and the states swung in favor of the federal government - something the citizens can influence directly (if they opt to do so).
- flavor8 13y ago
  I think that's exactly right. I came to the same conclusions after reading 1/2 a dozen books about the events leading up to the 2008 market crash. There were no evil masterminds, just a lot of shortsighted greedy individuals whose actions had consequences larger than they'd imagined. We're not a very rational species yet.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    Inadvertent? Jamie Dimon? Hank Paulson? I guess hindsight always has a "whoopsy daisy!" loophole though.
- prirun 13y ago
  Solution: starve the beast to reduce the scale. Ex: 1) Banks: a. don't use any of the banks that are primary dealers b. use cash whenever possible c. save then spend rather than taking out loans d. don't buy shit you don't need e. don't put more than $250K in any one bank 2) Food & groceries: a. buy stuff on sale b. alternate between big stores to promote competition c. shop at less popular stores for lower prices d. don't buy more than you need and throw it away e. save leftovers f. be flexible on brands g. don't buy shit you don't need at all h. if they jack up the price on something, substitute i. watch for quantity vs price tricks j. buy from the value menu k. shop at several stores, buy what is cheap at each 3. Gadgets and gimmicks a. don't buy shit you don't need b. cancel your cable; watch HDTV over the air c. cancel your land line d. use cheap phones instead of smart phones e. use cheap prepaid phones from the dollar store: $15/mo f. don't buy Internet "higher speed" packages g. get on someone's cell family plan h. buy the cheapest plan, not the "best" 4. Big stuff a. don't buy a new car just because rates are low b. or a house c. verify your home tax assessment every time d. protest every assessment that isn't justified e. payoff your loan as soon as possible f. don't keep a (big) loan just to keep the exemption g. buy only what you need h. buy only what you can afford i. use rubbers j. is college still worth it, really? learn a trade 5. Eating out a. it's a treat, not a lifestyle b. order water to drink c. order lunch portions d. order less food: most Americans overeat e. save leftovers f. find cheap restaurants with good food g. split large orders h. tip 20%+ with your savings: you'll feel better 6. Don't recycle: reuse a. first, don't buy shit you don't need b. sell old stuff on eBay or craigslist, even if $5 c. force yourself to sell old stuff = buy less new junk d. donate anything reusable rather than tossing it e. take care of your shit so you don't have to buy more IMO, we will never "fix" our governments. They are screwed up at the local, state, and federal level, because they are not spending their own money: they are spending ours. The only thing we can do is starve them until they can't afford to do all the crazy shit they are doing today.
dwaltrip 13y ago
There isn't a grand evil master. There are large numbers of misguided individuals inadvertently assisting the development of certain unfortunate emergent phenomena.

DerpDerpDerp 13y ago

I've known about or guessed at the Snowden revelations for years now, and I think you're personifying a complex system by saying "Surely some person must be in charge!" The truth is that it actually seems to just be a clusterfuck of many people interacting, each pursuing their own (usually ambivalent to good) intentions, and that no one really is running the show. Which in many ways, is more terrifying: if someone is in charge, then all we have to do is change who is in charge to fix the problem; but if the problem is that even with good intentions, there are problems with scale and complexity that mangle them in to monstrosities like this... what can we do about it? You can always behead a bad king, but what do you do about human nature and the problems of scale?

droopyEyelids 13y ago
I'm glad to see other people thinking this way, because I believe this is the problem we're actually dealing with. Combine that with the fact that this cat can not be stuffed back in its bag, and all I can think of doing is hoping the surveillance is complete enough and disseminated widely enough that no one asshole or cabal of assholes can seize control.
- DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
  I mean, I would argue that any solutions have to be found in restructuring things to be much more localized and decentralized. A return to city-states, for instance, would deal with the problem of global super powers that can spy on huge swathes of the population, because it would require many independent groups who all have their own self-interests to collaborate in a way that lessens their individual power. To some degree, the kind of spying we see now is only possible because the balance between the federal government and the states swung in favor of the federal government - something the citizens can influence directly (if they opt to do so).
flavor8 13y ago
I think that's exactly right. I came to the same conclusions after reading 1/2 a dozen books about the events leading up to the 2008 market crash. There were no evil masterminds, just a lot of shortsighted greedy individuals whose actions had consequences larger than they'd imagined. We're not a very rational species yet.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Inadvertent? Jamie Dimon? Hank Paulson? I guess hindsight always has a "whoopsy daisy!" loophole though.
prirun 13y ago
Solution: starve the beast to reduce the scale. Ex: 1) Banks: a. don't use any of the banks that are primary dealers b. use cash whenever possible c. save then spend rather than taking out loans d. don't buy shit you don't need e. don't put more than $250K in any one bank 2) Food & groceries: a. buy stuff on sale b. alternate between big stores to promote competition c. shop at less popular stores for lower prices d. don't buy more than you need and throw it away e. save leftovers f. be flexible on brands g. don't buy shit you don't need at all h. if they jack up the price on something, substitute i. watch for quantity vs price tricks j. buy from the value menu k. shop at several stores, buy what is cheap at each 3. Gadgets and gimmicks a. don't buy shit you don't need b. cancel your cable; watch HDTV over the air c. cancel your land line d. use cheap phones instead of smart phones e. use cheap prepaid phones from the dollar store: $15/mo f. don't buy Internet "higher speed" packages g. get on someone's cell family plan h. buy the cheapest plan, not the "best" 4. Big stuff a. don't buy a new car just because rates are low b. or a house c. verify your home tax assessment every time d. protest every assessment that isn't justified e. payoff your loan as soon as possible f. don't keep a (big) loan just to keep the exemption g. buy only what you need h. buy only what you can afford i. use rubbers j. is college still worth it, really? learn a trade 5. Eating out a. it's a treat, not a lifestyle b. order water to drink c. order lunch portions d. order less food: most Americans overeat e. save leftovers f. find cheap restaurants with good food g. split large orders h. tip 20%+ with your savings: you'll feel better 6. Don't recycle: reuse a. first, don't buy shit you don't need b. sell old stuff on eBay or craigslist, even if $5 c. force yourself to sell old stuff = buy less new junk d. donate anything reusable rather than tossing it e. take care of your shit so you don't have to buy more IMO, we will never "fix" our governments. They are screwed up at the local, state, and federal level, because they are not spending their own money: they are spending ours. The only thing we can do is starve them until they can't afford to do all the crazy shit they are doing today.

dwaltrip 13y ago

There isn't a grand evil master. There are large numbers of misguided individuals inadvertently assisting the development of certain unfortunate emergent phenomena.