14 ms·

After neighbor’s death, first-time filmmaker declares war on suicide

88 points by kenshiro_o 13y ago

jacquesm 13y ago
Unfortunately, suicide will never be stopped. And what is suicide anyway? People later in life that are disease ridden and in pain would sometimes like to end their lives in peace without causing someone else to automatically become a criminal. Depending on who you talk to this is either a natural right or absolutely off the table. These are not simple subjects and every case is as different as people are different.
- VMG 13y ago
  The fact that there are statistically significant differences between nations and cultures is an indicator that not every case is different.
- emiliobumachar 13y ago
  It will never be completely stopped without some seriously dystopian measures, but it can be very much decreased by disseminating information, investing in preventive measures, etc.
  - benjohnson 13y ago
    Careful with disseminating information - there's a theory that if you provide a complete model for suicide that it will be emulated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide
- dalore 13y ago
  I'd like to think he going after depression that leads to suicide. Is euthanasia really suicide?
  - pyre 13y ago
    When it's at the behest of the 'victim' it's usually referred to as assisted-suicide.
    - amerika_blog 13y ago
      I think that's convenient terminology but nothing else. Suicide is what occurs when you don't have the option for life. When you have a terminal disease, you've entered the state of being in the end of life. You're just choosing how that endgame plays out. Not everyone has the fortune to die surrounded by the corpses of their enemies.
      - Yourfags 13y ago
        Perhaps you mean it in a different sense, but it's not possible to not have the option for life, you can choose not to experience life, you can say the reasons against it are too much for you, but there's never a time when life is no longer an option.
      - dalore 13y ago
        One could argue that life itself is a terminal illness.
    - Someone 13y ago
      No. Assisted suicide is when someone kills himself with help from somebody else. For example, one could bring someone (who, typically, isn't capable of getting them by himself) a gun or pills. Euthanasia is when someone ends the life of somebody else upon that other person's clear and well-considered request. People will differ in their opinion whether there is a difference with murder here.
RWeaver 13y ago
I'm probably still very uninformed about Japanese society (it's complex), but they are probably more prone to suicide than others. From what I understand there is a huge emphasis on obligations to others, perfection, and the shame of failure. Traditional Japanese culture frowns on entrepreneurship, preferring obligation to a large corporation (who is in turn loyal to you), where it can sometimes be hard being so disconnected from the value you provide to society. Most of hacker news will be lucky in this regard. Despite the occasional existential crisis, as entrepreneurs we're self selected eternal optimists. Sadly not everyone turns out so lucky.
- jpatokal 13y ago
  Did you just suggest that Japanese are committing suicide because they can't be entrepreneurs? (o_O) In general, if you're wondering what causes high suicide rates, it's a lot more useful to look at societal motivators than race. As everywhere, there's a strong correlation between depression and suicide, and it's not hard to find the main causes. In Japan's particular case, the largest group committing suicide are the elderly, who have devoted their lives to their company and feel they have nothing left when they retire. The second-largest group is the unemployed, particularly those who have fallen into debt traps that very often ensnare family and friends as guarantors, with life insurance providing an "easy" way out. And the final group is students, who commit suicide to escape bullying or the immense pressure of their final exams.
  - kenshiro_o 13y ago
    What I find shocking is life insurance companies paying out the family of the insured if he/she commits suicide. As far as I know, there is no such clause on life insurance contracts in the Europe (and I believe the U.S. as well). Surely , as one of the first steps towards reducing the suicide rate in Japan, insurance companies should stop incentivizing suicide.
    - pwim 13y ago
      In Canada and the US, it is common to not payout in the case of suicide within two years of creating the contract (the same as Japan).
rwmj 13y ago
The actual documentary is here: http://www.saving10000.com/ http://www.saving10000.com/
- Nux 13y ago
  THANK YOU!
todayiamme 13y ago
>>> an old woman approached Duignan and said, “That’s not a movie, that’s a weapon against suicide.” <<< It's amazing what a compelling movie can do. It's a delicate act, but when done correctly it encourages people to use their compassion and empathy as weapons for a cause. We're so attuned to human faces and voices that movies directly and emotionally engage us in ways that are far beyond mere paper. My friend attempted to do something like this with homelessness. He actually found a camera, went out there, and just tried to talk to homeless people and helped them to get off the streets while chronicling their journey. Although it sounds simple and, well, uninteresting, what he captured on film ended up being a fascinating, compassionate look into this complex world. I really recommend it; https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/but-for-the-grace-of-god/id469930988 https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/but-for-the-grace-of-god/i...
- minikites 13y ago
  I assume you've seen Dark Days? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_(film) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_(film)
- lisper 13y ago
  Thanks for the shout-out. The film is also available on Amazon. The main web site for the film is here: http://graceofgodmovie.com/ http://graceofgodmovie.com/
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
stevoski 13y ago
Somehow, I feel it is within people's right to self-determination to be free to choose suicide. And yet, I think I'd be very sad if a close friend committed suicide.
- philhippus 13y ago
  Suicide is something that can never be fully controlled. It may be illegal to do it, but it's a literal inalienable right, no matter how strong the law against it.
  - willurd 13y ago
    If any law would make suicide illegal, or any government would exert any control over you should you fail, then it stands to reason that those people making those laws, and those people in those governments, own your body.
- omegant 13y ago
  The problem is that most of the times suicide is not a rational decission taken by someone with terminal cancer to stop their fisical suffering. Most of the times is the reaction of a malfunctioning brain. Most suicidals wouldn't have taken the decission in a normal situation (not depressed) , and those who failed to kill themselves are happy to be alive. That's why it's so important to know the factors that trigger suicide compulsions, and the measures to better fight them.. A depresed person suicide brings a big suffering to the family and friends of the deceased, who most of the times don't know of the intentions.
  - emp_zealoth 13y ago
    It doesn't have to be a terminal cancer. Sometimes it's just the loneliness, or the facts that led to it - for example unwillingly hurting people I care about because I'm a bit ... deficient when it comes to social skills and no matter how much I fret, I will, eventually but invariably, say something stupid that will make someone hurt. Stuffing me full of antidepressants won't solve the underlying problem Neither will a chat on a hotline - you hang up and the soulcrushing memories of those hurt people are back right away
thenerdfiles 13y ago
I've been grieving two years now. She was "brutally murdered" by a Greek student, in Hamburg, Germany. I had nightmares for 3 months. Insomnia and loss of love for code ensued, as I created barriers with the world. All my community could say is "it happens to anyone." And I take things too literally, perchance. I doubt I could live through this again, in a world where we are killing everyone from autistics to Jewish peoples to student tourists with cameras. But what is more I am now hyperaware. I long for sincere eyes. Some see it, others simply attack. Others notice this of me as well, and they must discover the mystery...with all sorts of tests. Yes, so I have sensitive hearing and I rock when hungry. Does that make me a predator? I want the staring to stop. But the basic fear: it could happen to anyone. Now I am reminded quite frequently here in Austin that random and bad people are simply picked up off of the street and killed, randomly, when all I have is a broken heart. Until they run me off with that one last death or racist joke that makes upper society's configurable moral compass quite unappealing, and its fascination with tastelessness and unchecked chauvenism as the lingua franca of capability. People are often too ugly inside to warrant participation in this "fear market."
- lake99 13y ago
  I couldn't help but notice an apparent contradiction. You complain about racism and chauvinism, and yet, you identify the murderer as a "Greek student" instead of as a "deranged student".
  - darkmirage 13y ago
    This is ridiculous. If he had said that the murderer was a male student, would you be complaining about sexism? Identifying someone's race is not racism. He didn't imply anything about Greeks in general.
    - thenerdfiles 13y ago
      Right, I'm only using descriptions garnered from articles on the homicide, which are written in internationalese. "Deranged" is baseless opinion. "Deranged or whatever" is arguing for argument's sake. "Anything but racialism" is post-colonial guilt. I have no reason to engage in any of these practices on the matter.
ekianjo 13y ago
"Japan suicide rate is an enigma" Not so much.
gph 13y ago
Heartening story, but I can't get over this line they stuck in at the bottom >• Blue lights installed at train stations have reduced suicide by 80 percent at those stations. How or why this works, nobody knows. I can't stop thinking about this. I've tried to puzzle out some type of reason, but I'm just not getting anything.
- studentrob 13y ago
  There must have been some hypothesis or they wouldn't have studied the result. Probably got lost in translation. EDIT: When an english speaking reporter can't figure something out in a foreign country they often say "nobody knows ..." but really they mean "I couldn't find a source to tell me ..." EDIT 2: I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was discussed in the movie. I just got to that part. Clearly the author of the film knows plenty of Japanese people and knows this subject well. At the same time there was still a scientific reason for installing them: other posters are pointing out that there have been studies measuring blue light showing it is a "stimulus for acute melatonin suppression" . Interesting!
  - amerika_blog 13y ago
    > When an english speaking reporter can't figure something out in a foreign country they often say "nobody knows ..." but really they mean "I couldn't find a source to tell me ... Same is true in English-speaking countries with English-speaking reporters :) "No one (that I know) knows..."
- Swizec 13y ago
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/6578256/Blue-lights-installed-in-Tokyo-train-stations-to-stop-suicides.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/6578256... "Designed to soothe and calm, the specially-designed blue LED lights have been suspended above the platforms of dozens of Tokyo railway stations in order to stem the nation's spiralling suicide rate."
  - gph 13y ago
    Interesting, thanks.
aaroncray 13y ago
My puppy has declared war on unhappiness... he takes it very seriously.
silentbob20059 13y ago
Hofstede conducted a study in the 60's 70's by submitting questionnaires to IBM employees all over the world in order to compare the responses for cultural differences. Japan ranked highest in the world for masculinity, [masculinity-femininity (task orientation versus person-orientation)] Assuming Hofstede's reflect reality. Could this have something to do with the high suicide rate? Another musing, Could it have something to do with Confucian cultures and a great deal of pressure to fulfill one's filial piety?
- amerika_blog 13y ago
  Or could it have to do with the higher intelligence, introspection and desire for order of Japanese people, versus for example people in Miley Cyrus videos?
- amerika_blog 13y ago
  Quick link for that: http://geert-hofstede.com/national-culture.html http://geert-hofstede.com/national-culture.html
- contingencies 13y ago
  Could it have something to do with Confucian cultures and a great deal of pressure to fulfill one's filial piety? Precisely. China, Japan, South Korea are all seriously Confucian influenced. Chinese suicides are often young people with poor families who fail to enter university. SK was the most depressing place I've ever been. Vietnam's another place that's historically a heavily Confucian society, I wonder if they collect realistic suicide statistics? (Last visit, last year, the mood in Hanoi seemed to be very strong compared to, say, 10 years ago.)
NIL8 13y ago
This is an unusual and insightful post for HN. Thank you for it. "The power of regret," what a powerful force. It's not often that we are able to use it in such a tangible way. The filmmaker's attempt to make amends may help us all to stop ignoring our neighbors.
- kenshiro_o 13y ago
  This really is the driving force of the filmmaker and I really can't blame him for ignoring his neighbour after having listened to her on so many occasions... It's not like he was insensitive towards her but as humans we all have a threshold that determines our capacity for empathy. Still I wonder what kind of problems his neighbour had to justify putting an end to her life.
amerika_blog 13y ago
That's a noble quest. It seems to me that the intelligent, sensitive and wise are the ones who kill themselves. The blockhead, self-entitled, criminal, etc. never seem to.
Yourfags 13y ago
Actually to be quite contrary, and just to hear people's ideas, how can anyone judge whether death is right or wrong? Or in a different light, how do you say that the promotion of human beings is a good thing? I'm a human being, and all of us talking are, so perhaps we're inclined in that sense to believe that human life is precious. But can one prove what death is? Is it always better for someone to live, is it always better for someone to die? Death in my poorly conceived view is just a moment in which we choose to no longer accept this world, but I don't believe that I'll cease to exist. In fact no matter how large or how terrifying the experience may be, it will still pass. Yes, in a sense I'm making a relativistic argument, but it's interesting to me to hear people's views on death.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
geedy 13y ago
My Grandfather completed suicide when I was 13 years old. It was an awful experience for our whole family which includes his wife, their children, and their children's children. His suicide was caused by extreme depression, something he fought his entire life. In my opinion, now, its not different than losing a battle with cancer, except that outwardly it appears he "chose" to end his life. Having experienced depression myself, I know it was not really him who made that decision. Tools like this will hopefully help us find new "cures" or at least support structures for those who are seriously mentally ill.
robotcookies 13y ago
The suicide rates by nation in the article are likely higher than reported. I lost a sibling to what I believe was suicide but it was recorded as an accident. I also think under-reporting happens more in countries where there is a stigma against it. Nations with a high Catholic population in particular may under-report (my parents being Catholic would never accept suicide as a cause of death for their daughter). Suicide is viewed as a sin and many Catholics believe it leads to hell. Also interesting is that many of the countries listed as having the lowest suicide rates are also the most Catholic according to wikipedia (Phillipines, Brazil, Mexico and Italy).
- contingencies 13y ago
  Good point. On the other hand, I would say most places have a stigma... I know China does. The major difference with Japan being, people don't tend to live alone.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  The official statistic in Japan is 30,000 people/year, but it's widely suspected that the real number is around 100,000.
vonskippy 13y ago
"Rene Duignan is passionate about life" No, he's passionate about control. Where do people get off telling others what they can and can't do with their life. Who better then the ACTUAL PERSON to decide when and if it's the right time to call it quits (for whatever reason - once again it's nobody elses business on the why). With 7 billion people and counting, why are people making such a big deal when someone decides their time on the ride called "human life" should be over. For most, there is little choice, you live, then you die. For some, they would rather take personal control over the when. Why is that a bad thing? The world has turned into a huge nanny - butting into the smallest of things that should remain completely in control of the individual. Over the last 12 years, twice I've fought with cancer and won (or at least had it declared a tie) but you can bet that I have a exit plan in hand (and yes, that includes taking care of the people I'll leave behind). Withering away in excruciating pain is not for me (does that make me weak? a coward? or just prudent in deciding how I WANT to end MY LIFE).
- bofh69 13y ago
  On the other hand there are plenty of people who are depressed, tries to kill themselves, survives and are later happy to be alive, in those cases it would be a bad thing if they had succeeded. It is such suicides that most people try to prevent when they are talking about preventing suicides.
chatman 13y ago
Link to the documentary he made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0SHLxc2d0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0SHLxc2d0

88 points by kenshiro_o 13y ago

Unfortunately, suicide will never be stopped. And what is suicide anyway? People later in life that are disease ridden and in pain would sometimes like to end their lives in peace without causing someone else to automatically become a criminal. Depending on who you talk to this is either a natural right or absolutely off the table. These are not simple subjects and every case is as different as people are different.

VMG 13y ago
The fact that there are statistically significant differences between nations and cultures is an indicator that not every case is different.
emiliobumachar 13y ago
It will never be completely stopped without some seriously dystopian measures, but it can be very much decreased by disseminating information, investing in preventive measures, etc.
- benjohnson 13y ago
  Careful with disseminating information - there's a theory that if you provide a complete model for suicide that it will be emulated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide
dalore 13y ago
I'd like to think he going after depression that leads to suicide. Is euthanasia really suicide?
- pyre 13y ago
  When it's at the behest of the 'victim' it's usually referred to as assisted-suicide.
  - amerika_blog 13y ago
    I think that's convenient terminology but nothing else. Suicide is what occurs when you don't have the option for life. When you have a terminal disease, you've entered the state of being in the end of life. You're just choosing how that endgame plays out. Not everyone has the fortune to die surrounded by the corpses of their enemies.
    - Yourfags 13y ago
      Perhaps you mean it in a different sense, but it's not possible to not have the option for life, you can choose not to experience life, you can say the reasons against it are too much for you, but there's never a time when life is no longer an option.
    - dalore 13y ago
      One could argue that life itself is a terminal illness.
  - Someone 13y ago
    No. Assisted suicide is when someone kills himself with help from somebody else. For example, one could bring someone (who, typically, isn't capable of getting them by himself) a gun or pills. Euthanasia is when someone ends the life of somebody else upon that other person's clear and well-considered request. People will differ in their opinion whether there is a difference with murder here.

RWeaver 13y ago

I'm probably still very uninformed about Japanese society (it's complex), but they are probably more prone to suicide than others. From what I understand there is a huge emphasis on obligations to others, perfection, and the shame of failure. Traditional Japanese culture frowns on entrepreneurship, preferring obligation to a large corporation (who is in turn loyal to you), where it can sometimes be hard being so disconnected from the value you provide to society. Most of hacker news will be lucky in this regard. Despite the occasional existential crisis, as entrepreneurs we're self selected eternal optimists. Sadly not everyone turns out so lucky.

jpatokal 13y ago
Did you just suggest that Japanese are committing suicide because they can't be entrepreneurs? (o_O) In general, if you're wondering what causes high suicide rates, it's a lot more useful to look at societal motivators than race. As everywhere, there's a strong correlation between depression and suicide, and it's not hard to find the main causes. In Japan's particular case, the largest group committing suicide are the elderly, who have devoted their lives to their company and feel they have nothing left when they retire. The second-largest group is the unemployed, particularly those who have fallen into debt traps that very often ensnare family and friends as guarantors, with life insurance providing an "easy" way out. And the final group is students, who commit suicide to escape bullying or the immense pressure of their final exams.
- kenshiro_o 13y ago
  What I find shocking is life insurance companies paying out the family of the insured if he/she commits suicide. As far as I know, there is no such clause on life insurance contracts in the Europe (and I believe the U.S. as well). Surely , as one of the first steps towards reducing the suicide rate in Japan, insurance companies should stop incentivizing suicide.
  - pwim 13y ago
    In Canada and the US, it is common to not payout in the case of suicide within two years of creating the contract (the same as Japan).

rwmj 13y ago

The actual documentary is here: http://www.saving10000.com/ http://www.saving10000.com/

Nux 13y ago
THANK YOU!

todayiamme 13y ago

>>> an old woman approached Duignan and said, “That’s not a movie, that’s a weapon against suicide.” <<< It's amazing what a compelling movie can do. It's a delicate act, but when done correctly it encourages people to use their compassion and empathy as weapons for a cause. We're so attuned to human faces and voices that movies directly and emotionally engage us in ways that are far beyond mere paper. My friend attempted to do something like this with homelessness. He actually found a camera, went out there, and just tried to talk to homeless people and helped them to get off the streets while chronicling their journey. Although it sounds simple and, well, uninteresting, what he captured on film ended up being a fascinating, compassionate look into this complex world. I really recommend it; https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/but-for-the-grace-of-god/id469930988 https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/but-for-the-grace-of-god/i...

minikites 13y ago
I assume you've seen Dark Days? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_(film) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_(film)
lisper 13y ago
Thanks for the shout-out. The film is also available on Amazon. The main web site for the film is here: http://graceofgodmovie.com/ http://graceofgodmovie.com/
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

stevoski 13y ago

Somehow, I feel it is within people's right to self-determination to be free to choose suicide. And yet, I think I'd be very sad if a close friend committed suicide.

philhippus 13y ago
Suicide is something that can never be fully controlled. It may be illegal to do it, but it's a literal inalienable right, no matter how strong the law against it.
- willurd 13y ago
  If any law would make suicide illegal, or any government would exert any control over you should you fail, then it stands to reason that those people making those laws, and those people in those governments, own your body.
omegant 13y ago
The problem is that most of the times suicide is not a rational decission taken by someone with terminal cancer to stop their fisical suffering. Most of the times is the reaction of a malfunctioning brain. Most suicidals wouldn't have taken the decission in a normal situation (not depressed) , and those who failed to kill themselves are happy to be alive. That's why it's so important to know the factors that trigger suicide compulsions, and the measures to better fight them.. A depresed person suicide brings a big suffering to the family and friends of the deceased, who most of the times don't know of the intentions.
- emp_zealoth 13y ago
  It doesn't have to be a terminal cancer. Sometimes it's just the loneliness, or the facts that led to it - for example unwillingly hurting people I care about because I'm a bit ... deficient when it comes to social skills and no matter how much I fret, I will, eventually but invariably, say something stupid that will make someone hurt. Stuffing me full of antidepressants won't solve the underlying problem Neither will a chat on a hotline - you hang up and the soulcrushing memories of those hurt people are back right away

thenerdfiles 13y ago

I've been grieving two years now. She was "brutally murdered" by a Greek student, in Hamburg, Germany. I had nightmares for 3 months. Insomnia and loss of love for code ensued, as I created barriers with the world. All my community could say is "it happens to anyone." And I take things too literally, perchance. I doubt I could live through this again, in a world where we are killing everyone from autistics to Jewish peoples to student tourists with cameras. But what is more I am now hyperaware. I long for sincere eyes. Some see it, others simply attack. Others notice this of me as well, and they must discover the mystery...with all sorts of tests. Yes, so I have sensitive hearing and I rock when hungry. Does that make me a predator? I want the staring to stop. But the basic fear: it could happen to anyone. Now I am reminded quite frequently here in Austin that random and bad people are simply picked up off of the street and killed, randomly, when all I have is a broken heart. Until they run me off with that one last death or racist joke that makes upper society's configurable moral compass quite unappealing, and its fascination with tastelessness and unchecked chauvenism as the lingua franca of capability. People are often too ugly inside to warrant participation in this "fear market."

lake99 13y ago
I couldn't help but notice an apparent contradiction. You complain about racism and chauvinism, and yet, you identify the murderer as a "Greek student" instead of as a "deranged student".
- darkmirage 13y ago
  This is ridiculous. If he had said that the murderer was a male student, would you be complaining about sexism? Identifying someone's race is not racism. He didn't imply anything about Greeks in general.
  - thenerdfiles 13y ago
    Right, I'm only using descriptions garnered from articles on the homicide, which are written in internationalese. "Deranged" is baseless opinion. "Deranged or whatever" is arguing for argument's sake. "Anything but racialism" is post-colonial guilt. I have no reason to engage in any of these practices on the matter.

ekianjo 13y ago

"Japan suicide rate is an enigma" Not so much.

gph 13y ago

Heartening story, but I can't get over this line they stuck in at the bottom >• Blue lights installed at train stations have reduced suicide by 80 percent at those stations. How or why this works, nobody knows. I can't stop thinking about this. I've tried to puzzle out some type of reason, but I'm just not getting anything.

studentrob 13y ago
There must have been some hypothesis or they wouldn't have studied the result. Probably got lost in translation. EDIT: When an english speaking reporter can't figure something out in a foreign country they often say "nobody knows ..." but really they mean "I couldn't find a source to tell me ..." EDIT 2: I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was discussed in the movie. I just got to that part. Clearly the author of the film knows plenty of Japanese people and knows this subject well. At the same time there was still a scientific reason for installing them: other posters are pointing out that there have been studies measuring blue light showing it is a "stimulus for acute melatonin suppression" . Interesting!
- amerika_blog 13y ago
  > When an english speaking reporter can't figure something out in a foreign country they often say "nobody knows ..." but really they mean "I couldn't find a source to tell me ... Same is true in English-speaking countries with English-speaking reporters :) "No one (that I know) knows..."
Swizec 13y ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/6578256/Blue-lights-installed-in-Tokyo-train-stations-to-stop-suicides.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/6578256... "Designed to soothe and calm, the specially-designed blue LED lights have been suspended above the platforms of dozens of Tokyo railway stations in order to stem the nation's spiralling suicide rate."
- gph 13y ago
  Interesting, thanks.

aaroncray 13y ago

My puppy has declared war on unhappiness... he takes it very seriously.

silentbob20059 13y ago

Hofstede conducted a study in the 60's 70's by submitting questionnaires to IBM employees all over the world in order to compare the responses for cultural differences. Japan ranked highest in the world for masculinity, [masculinity-femininity (task orientation versus person-orientation)] Assuming Hofstede's reflect reality. Could this have something to do with the high suicide rate? Another musing, Could it have something to do with Confucian cultures and a great deal of pressure to fulfill one's filial piety?

amerika_blog 13y ago
Or could it have to do with the higher intelligence, introspection and desire for order of Japanese people, versus for example people in Miley Cyrus videos?
amerika_blog 13y ago
Quick link for that: http://geert-hofstede.com/national-culture.html http://geert-hofstede.com/national-culture.html
contingencies 13y ago
Could it have something to do with Confucian cultures and a great deal of pressure to fulfill one's filial piety? Precisely. China, Japan, South Korea are all seriously Confucian influenced. Chinese suicides are often young people with poor families who fail to enter university. SK was the most depressing place I've ever been. Vietnam's another place that's historically a heavily Confucian society, I wonder if they collect realistic suicide statistics? (Last visit, last year, the mood in Hanoi seemed to be very strong compared to, say, 10 years ago.)

NIL8 13y ago

This is an unusual and insightful post for HN. Thank you for it. "The power of regret," what a powerful force. It's not often that we are able to use it in such a tangible way. The filmmaker's attempt to make amends may help us all to stop ignoring our neighbors.

kenshiro_o 13y ago
This really is the driving force of the filmmaker and I really can't blame him for ignoring his neighbour after having listened to her on so many occasions... It's not like he was insensitive towards her but as humans we all have a threshold that determines our capacity for empathy. Still I wonder what kind of problems his neighbour had to justify putting an end to her life.

amerika_blog 13y ago

That's a noble quest. It seems to me that the intelligent, sensitive and wise are the ones who kill themselves. The blockhead, self-entitled, criminal, etc. never seem to.

Yourfags 13y ago

Actually to be quite contrary, and just to hear people's ideas, how can anyone judge whether death is right or wrong? Or in a different light, how do you say that the promotion of human beings is a good thing? I'm a human being, and all of us talking are, so perhaps we're inclined in that sense to believe that human life is precious. But can one prove what death is? Is it always better for someone to live, is it always better for someone to die? Death in my poorly conceived view is just a moment in which we choose to no longer accept this world, but I don't believe that I'll cease to exist. In fact no matter how large or how terrifying the experience may be, it will still pass. Yes, in a sense I'm making a relativistic argument, but it's interesting to me to hear people's views on death.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

geedy 13y ago

My Grandfather completed suicide when I was 13 years old. It was an awful experience for our whole family which includes his wife, their children, and their children's children. His suicide was caused by extreme depression, something he fought his entire life. In my opinion, now, its not different than losing a battle with cancer, except that outwardly it appears he "chose" to end his life. Having experienced depression myself, I know it was not really him who made that decision. Tools like this will hopefully help us find new "cures" or at least support structures for those who are seriously mentally ill.

robotcookies 13y ago

The suicide rates by nation in the article are likely higher than reported. I lost a sibling to what I believe was suicide but it was recorded as an accident. I also think under-reporting happens more in countries where there is a stigma against it. Nations with a high Catholic population in particular may under-report (my parents being Catholic would never accept suicide as a cause of death for their daughter). Suicide is viewed as a sin and many Catholics believe it leads to hell. Also interesting is that many of the countries listed as having the lowest suicide rates are also the most Catholic according to wikipedia (Phillipines, Brazil, Mexico and Italy).

contingencies 13y ago
Good point. On the other hand, I would say most places have a stigma... I know China does. The major difference with Japan being, people don't tend to live alone.
hkmurakami 13y ago
The official statistic in Japan is 30,000 people/year, but it's widely suspected that the real number is around 100,000.

vonskippy 13y ago

"Rene Duignan is passionate about life" No, he's passionate about control. Where do people get off telling others what they can and can't do with their life. Who better then the ACTUAL PERSON to decide when and if it's the right time to call it quits (for whatever reason - once again it's nobody elses business on the why). With 7 billion people and counting, why are people making such a big deal when someone decides their time on the ride called "human life" should be over. For most, there is little choice, you live, then you die. For some, they would rather take personal control over the when. Why is that a bad thing? The world has turned into a huge nanny - butting into the smallest of things that should remain completely in control of the individual. Over the last 12 years, twice I've fought with cancer and won (or at least had it declared a tie) but you can bet that I have a exit plan in hand (and yes, that includes taking care of the people I'll leave behind). Withering away in excruciating pain is not for me (does that make me weak? a coward? or just prudent in deciding how I WANT to end MY LIFE).

bofh69 13y ago
On the other hand there are plenty of people who are depressed, tries to kill themselves, survives and are later happy to be alive, in those cases it would be a bad thing if they had succeeded. It is such suicides that most people try to prevent when they are talking about preventing suicides.

chatman 13y ago

Link to the documentary he made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0SHLxc2d0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0SHLxc2d0