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I never understood these comparisons. How can we reasonably compare a hardware product (iPad) with an operating system that runs on a large number of other tabl

I never understood these comparisons. How can we reasonably compare a hardware product (iPad) with an operating system that runs on a large number of other tablets? I understand that it's a convenient "us vs them" analogy, but it makes no sense at closer examination.

spot 13y ago
it makes sense if you think of them as software ecosystems.
bane 13y ago
Because iOS is just a an OS that runs on a very limited number of tablets because of a decision by iOS's owners. There's absolutely no reason that iOS couldn't be just another tablet OS.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>There's absolutely no reason that iOS couldn't be just another tablet OS. There are many reasons. The primary one is that having the OS run on your own hardware allows you to have much tighter control over the user experience. After all, user experience is one area where iOS has always dominated Android.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    > After all, user experience is one area where iOS has always dominated Android. I don't think that's true at all. As of ICS, Android is much better. Especially considering the horrible state of notifications on iOS and the siloed nature of apps. And usability took a serious hit in the move from iOS 6 to 7.
  - bane 13y ago
    No disagreement about user experience, but this constant goal post moving "it's total numbers!" then when that shifts it's suddenly "this is comparing OSs to devices!" is unbelievably tiresome to see played out over and over again. Next up will be some other metric that will be overcome like profitability, or total apps purchased or app store size or whatever. Apple has simply made a decision and stuck with it and the result is that it limits their share of the market over a more versatile platform.
  - jmduke 13y ago
    I think the parent's comment is better phrased as "There's no constraint preventing iOS from being just another tablet OS." Apple consciously refuses to decouple their hardware from their software (and I agree with you that the iOS experience is better than the Android one, although I don't think it's an objective truth). Comparing iOS adoption to Android adoption is not some universally indicative metric (I'll bet all the money in my pockets that many more iPad owners know what "iOS" means than Android tablets know what "Android" means, which is incredibly important when you're, say, trying to build an ecosystem) but it is still important (I'm a developer with limited time resources! Do I spend X hours building an Android port?)
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      >>and I agree with you that the iOS experience is better than the Android one, although I don't think it's an objective truth Of course it is. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/167040-iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s4-apple-phones-trounce-android-in-touchscreen-responsiveness http://www.extremetech.com/computing/167040-iphone-5-vs-gala...
- lazerwalker 13y ago
  Because Apple's business model isn't selling an OS to a third-party OEM, it's selling you a piece of hardware using a proprietary OS as a selling point. And has been for decades.
  - bane 13y ago
    So? If Apple's goal is to increase total number of devices running iOS, then they have a good model to follow (Android). If it's to eventually end up in second place again in yet another market they should have owned, then they can feel free to keep on keeping on. There's nothing but their business model keeping them from doing it.
    - wriq 13y ago
      Apple's goal is to make money and the last time they licensed out their OS it didn't turn out very well for them.
  - MacsHeadroom 13y ago
    Both companies are in the business of monetizing apps in an app market. That is what they are about- money through apps. One company (Apple) chooses to restrict the hardware they let their app platform run on so they can have more control over the experience. Comparing the use of one app platform to use of a competing app platform is a perfectly reasonable comparison.
    - YOSPOS 13y ago
      Apple monetizing apps is ancillary to their monetizing of hardware. The real accomplishment is how Apple has managed to dominate market share while competing against a gamut of OEMs with a free OS and much lower price points. Apple may not be the leader in market share going into a refresh of iPads, but that's a temporary problem and not a reflection of the trend.
  - minor_nitwit 13y ago
    But from a developer's perspective, what matters is where the customers are. I still think in the near term, paid apps are a bigger market on the ipad but if your application is free, then android may be a better bet for initial deployment.
AnthonyMouse 13y ago
The comparison isn't of the hardware product, it's of the operating systems. Developers want to know what the installed base and rate of change for users of each OS is so they know the target market size to make decisions like which OS to develop an app for first. Consumers want to know what other consumers are doing because they don't want to get stuck with a device (like a Blackberry) that the market is abandoning and no one is making third party apps for.
- h4wker 13y ago
  If that's the case, then should we be including Kindle in the Android basket? Amazon pretty much owns its own fork, and is substantially different.
  - wiredfool 13y ago
    Probably, but good luck breaking out the numbers on those.
  - AnthonyMouse 13y ago
    Maybe. It's still a lot easier to get an existing Android app to run on a Kindle than it is to get it to run on an iPad. It seems like kind of a moot point anyway. The Kindle has less than 5% market share. Even if you take it out, what really changes?
- YOSPOS 13y ago
  These numbers are kind of useless when Apple is weeks away from refreshing their iPad line-up. You'll see Apple back in the lead in market share after that. Developers will continue to target iOS first because of that and because iOS users pay for apps.
  - AnthonyMouse 13y ago
    Notice that the post I was originally responding to was questioning why this information was useful. The answer is that some people rely on data in preference to speculative assumptions. >These numbers are kind of useless when Apple is weeks away from refreshing their iPad line-up. These numbers are the latest numbers. If you think they'll turn around then you can feel vindicated if they do, but for now the facts are the facts.
rdtsc 13y ago
What's to understand? How many other companies make tablets with iOS?

spot 13y ago

it makes sense if you think of them as software ecosystems.

bane 13y ago

Because iOS is just a an OS that runs on a very limited number of tablets because of a decision by iOS's owners. There's absolutely no reason that iOS couldn't be just another tablet OS.

enraged_camel 13y ago
>>There's absolutely no reason that iOS couldn't be just another tablet OS. There are many reasons. The primary one is that having the OS run on your own hardware allows you to have much tighter control over the user experience. After all, user experience is one area where iOS has always dominated Android.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > After all, user experience is one area where iOS has always dominated Android. I don't think that's true at all. As of ICS, Android is much better. Especially considering the horrible state of notifications on iOS and the siloed nature of apps. And usability took a serious hit in the move from iOS 6 to 7.
- bane 13y ago
  No disagreement about user experience, but this constant goal post moving "it's total numbers!" then when that shifts it's suddenly "this is comparing OSs to devices!" is unbelievably tiresome to see played out over and over again. Next up will be some other metric that will be overcome like profitability, or total apps purchased or app store size or whatever. Apple has simply made a decision and stuck with it and the result is that it limits their share of the market over a more versatile platform.
- jmduke 13y ago
  I think the parent's comment is better phrased as "There's no constraint preventing iOS from being just another tablet OS." Apple consciously refuses to decouple their hardware from their software (and I agree with you that the iOS experience is better than the Android one, although I don't think it's an objective truth). Comparing iOS adoption to Android adoption is not some universally indicative metric (I'll bet all the money in my pockets that many more iPad owners know what "iOS" means than Android tablets know what "Android" means, which is incredibly important when you're, say, trying to build an ecosystem) but it is still important (I'm a developer with limited time resources! Do I spend X hours building an Android port?)
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    >>and I agree with you that the iOS experience is better than the Android one, although I don't think it's an objective truth Of course it is. http://www.extremetech.com/computing/167040-iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s4-apple-phones-trounce-android-in-touchscreen-responsiveness http://www.extremetech.com/computing/167040-iphone-5-vs-gala...
lazerwalker 13y ago
Because Apple's business model isn't selling an OS to a third-party OEM, it's selling you a piece of hardware using a proprietary OS as a selling point. And has been for decades.
- bane 13y ago
  So? If Apple's goal is to increase total number of devices running iOS, then they have a good model to follow (Android). If it's to eventually end up in second place again in yet another market they should have owned, then they can feel free to keep on keeping on. There's nothing but their business model keeping them from doing it.
  - wriq 13y ago
    Apple's goal is to make money and the last time they licensed out their OS it didn't turn out very well for them.
- MacsHeadroom 13y ago
  Both companies are in the business of monetizing apps in an app market. That is what they are about- money through apps. One company (Apple) chooses to restrict the hardware they let their app platform run on so they can have more control over the experience. Comparing the use of one app platform to use of a competing app platform is a perfectly reasonable comparison.
  - YOSPOS 13y ago
    Apple monetizing apps is ancillary to their monetizing of hardware. The real accomplishment is how Apple has managed to dominate market share while competing against a gamut of OEMs with a free OS and much lower price points. Apple may not be the leader in market share going into a refresh of iPads, but that's a temporary problem and not a reflection of the trend.
- minor_nitwit 13y ago
  But from a developer's perspective, what matters is where the customers are. I still think in the near term, paid apps are a bigger market on the ipad but if your application is free, then android may be a better bet for initial deployment.

AnthonyMouse 13y ago

The comparison isn't of the hardware product, it's of the operating systems. Developers want to know what the installed base and rate of change for users of each OS is so they know the target market size to make decisions like which OS to develop an app for first. Consumers want to know what other consumers are doing because they don't want to get stuck with a device (like a Blackberry) that the market is abandoning and no one is making third party apps for.

h4wker 13y ago
If that's the case, then should we be including Kindle in the Android basket? Amazon pretty much owns its own fork, and is substantially different.
- wiredfool 13y ago
  Probably, but good luck breaking out the numbers on those.
- AnthonyMouse 13y ago
  Maybe. It's still a lot easier to get an existing Android app to run on a Kindle than it is to get it to run on an iPad. It seems like kind of a moot point anyway. The Kindle has less than 5% market share. Even if you take it out, what really changes?
YOSPOS 13y ago
These numbers are kind of useless when Apple is weeks away from refreshing their iPad line-up. You'll see Apple back in the lead in market share after that. Developers will continue to target iOS first because of that and because iOS users pay for apps.
- AnthonyMouse 13y ago
  Notice that the post I was originally responding to was questioning why this information was useful. The answer is that some people rely on data in preference to speculative assumptions. >These numbers are kind of useless when Apple is weeks away from refreshing their iPad line-up. These numbers are the latest numbers. If you think they'll turn around then you can feel vindicated if they do, but for now the facts are the facts.

rdtsc 13y ago

What's to understand? How many other companies make tablets with iOS?