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Subject to debate, and everyone's gonna want to think that their "side" is the most enlightened... (end disclaimer) I think a lot of liberals see conservative

by jbooth 13y ago

Subject to debate, and everyone's gonna want to think that their "side" is the most enlightened... (end disclaimer) I think a lot of liberals see conservatives as authoritarian in that they support the police/military parts of government. Even your tea party libertarians tend to see the police/military as 'our people', culturally speaking and as a necessary part of the state philosophically speaking. Liberals tend to distrust police/military a lot more. So while your libertarian is a lot less friendly to 'The State' and 'Big G Government', typically they're thinking about zoning boards, the FDA, FCC and welfare when they're against those things -- not particularly hierarchical organizations compared to military/police. Basically, you're thinking economics, we're thinking marching orders. (as a liberal, I find it ridiculous when I hear conservatives talk about the tyranny of big govt while pushing for an increase in defense spending and more militarization of police)

johngalt 13y ago
As a conservative I find it ridiculous when liberals talk of fascist police while pushing to limit civilian gun rights. We can make straw men all day. Regardless of arguing against caricatures of the 'other' side. I think a majority of Americans could agree on a majority of issues. The problem is the gamesmanship of politics.
- jbooth 13y ago
  "pushing to limit civilian gun rights" is sort of willfully deceptive, as it implies gun-grabbing where most liberals just want registration along the same level as a driver's license. At least you acknowledged that it's a straw man. Most conservatives do actually support more spending on military/security and less spending on everything else -- that's not a straw man position really, I was just describing a slant on it.
yummyfajitas 13y ago
I'm not a member of either side - I'm solidly in the camp of the radical individualist libertarians, both politically and in terms of survival strategy. I'm curious where you get the idea that liberals distrust the police/military. I certainly haven't observed this trend. Liberals tend to favor disarming everyone except the police/military, for example, while conservatives want to retain the ability of their community/family to defend itself. Not just ability - liberals tend to be against self defense, neighborhood watch programs and similar things they perceive as "vigilantism", both politically and culturally. As for the military, the last mainstream politician to eschew militarism was George "Humble Foreign Policy" Bush. (That lasted all of 9 months.) I could agree with your characterization if you were talking about hippies in the 60's, and I'm well aware that many people still take that view of the world. But that's the world of 50 years ago.
- deleted 13y ago
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- lukifer 13y ago
  The liberal base seems to like "clean" wars, in the style of Clinton and Obama: occasional military actions where very few Americans die. While there is a sizable anti-war segment of the Democratic party, they are in the minority, and have nowhere else to go. Patton and Carlin had it right: Americans like war (which is easy to do for those who've never been in one). They just disagree over details. Domestically, mainstream Democrats are also a little schizophrenic: they want to leave defense to the police, but they usually support restraints on police regarding profiling, due process, etc. (Those who join the police skew conservative, as authority and violence are intertwined; liberals know this instinctually, therefore feeling conflicted about depending on them.)
- tptacek 13y ago
  Liberals oppose neighborhood watch programs? Huh? No they don't.

by jbooth 13y ago

johngalt 13y ago

As a conservative I find it ridiculous when liberals talk of fascist police while pushing to limit civilian gun rights. We can make straw men all day. Regardless of arguing against caricatures of the 'other' side. I think a majority of Americans could agree on a majority of issues. The problem is the gamesmanship of politics.

jbooth 13y ago
"pushing to limit civilian gun rights" is sort of willfully deceptive, as it implies gun-grabbing where most liberals just want registration along the same level as a driver's license. At least you acknowledged that it's a straw man. Most conservatives do actually support more spending on military/security and less spending on everything else -- that's not a straw man position really, I was just describing a slant on it.

yummyfajitas 13y ago

I'm not a member of either side - I'm solidly in the camp of the radical individualist libertarians, both politically and in terms of survival strategy. I'm curious where you get the idea that liberals distrust the police/military. I certainly haven't observed this trend. Liberals tend to favor disarming everyone except the police/military, for example, while conservatives want to retain the ability of their community/family to defend itself. Not just ability - liberals tend to be against self defense, neighborhood watch programs and similar things they perceive as "vigilantism", both politically and culturally. As for the military, the last mainstream politician to eschew militarism was George "Humble Foreign Policy" Bush. (That lasted all of 9 months.) I could agree with your characterization if you were talking about hippies in the 60's, and I'm well aware that many people still take that view of the world. But that's the world of 50 years ago.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
lukifer 13y ago
The liberal base seems to like "clean" wars, in the style of Clinton and Obama: occasional military actions where very few Americans die. While there is a sizable anti-war segment of the Democratic party, they are in the minority, and have nowhere else to go. Patton and Carlin had it right: Americans like war (which is easy to do for those who've never been in one). They just disagree over details. Domestically, mainstream Democrats are also a little schizophrenic: they want to leave defense to the police, but they usually support restraints on police regarding profiling, due process, etc. (Those who join the police skew conservative, as authority and violence are intertwined; liberals know this instinctually, therefore feeling conflicted about depending on them.)
tptacek 13y ago
Liberals oppose neighborhood watch programs? Huh? No they don't.