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Pilot here (learned to fly at age 16). There really should be a system for allowing air traffic control to remotely control flights en route, so pilots can slee

Pilot here (learned to fly at age 16). There really should be a system for allowing air traffic control to remotely control flights en route, so pilots can sleep, read a book, bang their favorite stewardess/steward, etc. The only phases of flight where you really need humans at the controls are takeoff, landing, and uh-oh what the fuck is going on (this being a broad "catch all" category which encompasses everything from an exploded engine and hydraulic failure, see United Airlines / Sioux City, to a medical emergency). I would never fly on a pilotless airliner, but I'm fine with the pilots being asleep at the wheel during the en route phase of flight. There really isn't much to do except look at the GPS moving map and say "yep, we're over Iowa...... yep, we're still over Iowa". Course/altitude adjustments could all be beamed in from ATC. I'd prefer them to be rested up for landing, or in case something unexpected pops up.

gadders 13y ago
Hopefully this would also stop pilots interrupting the films every five minutes to tell you what the weather is like and how high the plane is etc etc. YOU'RE A GLORIFIED BUS DRIVER. JUST GET US WHERE IT SAYS ON THE TICKET.
- visakanv 13y ago
  Do you have a problem with bus drivers?
  - gadders 13y ago
    No, bus drivers are awesome. But they don't feel the need to disturb 500 people every 20 minutes because they like the sound of their own voice.
    - Osmium 13y ago
      To any pilots reading this: I, for one, actually like hearing from you from time to time. It's reassuring to hear. Especially in light of this thread!
      - gadders 13y ago
        Make it a channel on the in-flight entertainment them. Let people opt in.
- mmariani 13y ago
  Yeah right! Last time I checked starting up a bus was easy as starting up an airbus. ;) [1] [1] http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e54_1379836442 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e54_1379836442
  - victorhooi 13y ago
    I couldn't tell at the beginning whether this was a spoof or not, lol but nope, it's a genuine training video...lol. It makes you think of all those movies where the protagonist, with no experience suddenly leaps into action and pilots the plane to safety. Question for pilots - if you learn one plane, can you pick them all up? Or are they all vastly different?
    - sokoloff 13y ago
      I'm only moderately experienced (1200 hours or so, single and multi-engine rated). Put me in any airliner with all systems working (dead crew, no mechanical faults, weather above minimums and sufficient fuel), and I'll get the thing to a safe landing 999 out of 1000. I can't start it; I might not be able to taxi it in to the ramp; I surely can't diagnose system faults on an unfamiliar plane, but it's easy to get it to the ground and generally easy to get it stopped (especially if you choose an 8000+ runway, rather than the 5000 foot that might have been the original destination). The vast differences don't matter much when everything is working and there are plenty of margins and you only have to land/stop.
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  YOU'RE A GLORIFIED BUS DRIVER. I hate this type of sentiment. Guess what: most programmers are glorified plumbers!
  - gadders 13y ago
    Yeah, we're all glorified something. It's when a profession has an inflated sense of itself that it rankles.
    - ballard 13y ago
      Yup. Work is work. Anyone too pretty to GSD is a waste of space, including CEOs.
  - mahyarm 13y ago
    And doctors are glorified human body technicians.
- kunai 13y ago
  I hate when people equate being at the helm of a majestic craft to being a bus driver. There's far, FAR more akin to sailing than driving when you fly aircraft. Fluid dynamics are very similar, regardless of whether it's water or air you're sailing through. I don't think being a sailor has ever been a shameful profession; much the opposite, in fact.
  - PeterisP 13y ago
    Noone was saying anything about shameful professions; but, just like if I was a passenger in a sail-ship, I wouldn't like the ship captain to interrupt whatever I'm doing in my cabin to state what is the wind direction today; I wouldn't also like the air-ship captain to interrupt the movie with the notification about airspeed and air temperature up in the sky. Let him worry about the majestic flying, and let the passengers mind their own business.
3pt14159 13y ago
Why don't pilots learn to code then? They'd like, triple their salary and there would be only upside!
- TheAnimus 13y ago
  Myself, I think this would be safer. I disagree with the other pilot (but I'm only PPL) on his views about sleeping during boring stages of flight. Say for instance you've piloted badly into a CB, you suffer a freezing on your pitot static systems. The autopilot disengages. If you were asleep, it might take a while for you to get your act together, co-ordinate to ascertain who has the flight controls and start CRM procedures. If you were wide awake, thinking how to solve this tricksy problem, you might do a better job as your mind is already warmed up!
  - andrewflnr 13y ago
    Personally, it takes me a long time to disengage my mind from "this tricksy problem" and bring it back around to real life. I suspect this delay is comparable to that for waking up with adrenalin. Anyway, no matter what, the policy is probably going to be that at least one pilot is awake with their mind on the job at all times.
mistercow 13y ago
>and uh-oh what the fuck is going on So presumably you would have an alarm that wakes up the pilot if this happens. Here's the problem: humans wake up pretty slowly. For 10 minutes or so after you wake up, you might as well be drunk as far as your reaction time and judgment are concerned. I don't know if this has been tested in high stress situations, and I would guess that the "warm up time" is faster if your adrenaline is pumping, but it's still going to be a lot worse than having already been awake.
- brianmcconnell 13y ago
  There are two pilots. So assume they sleep in shifts. The point is that the several hours en route are a good time for the pilots to rest. Takeoff and landing are the riskiest phases of flight. I'm mainly concerned that the pilots are on top of their game then.
- JshWright 13y ago
  I wake up with a hit of adrenaline a couple times a week (thanks to Plectron tones going off, indicating an emergency call of some nature). I'd say that 'might as well be drunk' period lasts around 30 seconds for me (the process of getting dressed is generally just a foggy blur...). By the time I'm moving toward the truck, I'm more or less firing on all cylinders. 30 seconds is still an awfully long time in a plane when stuff is going sideways...
- Malician 13y ago
  This is true, but the chance of an incident occurring during neither takeoff or landing, when both pilots happen to be asleep at the same time is fairly low. On the other hand, sleep deprivation (which as the article mentions, can be far worse than being legally drunk) is common and pilots probably often perform the most difficult parts of the flight while under its effects. I would think the risks of pilots sleeping (and, very rarely, getting caught unprepared for an emergency) would be minimal compared to the risks of pilots being regularly incapacitated by fatigue during the most difficult parts of the flight.
nicholassmith 13y ago
It'd make sense for a sleep schedule on flights over 5 hours, let each pilot get an hour sleep after an hour or so in. That way both are rested well before they need to worry about landing. ('bang their favorite stewardess/steward', wait, that still happens? I suppose it could be fitted around a sleep schedule)

gadders 13y ago

Hopefully this would also stop pilots interrupting the films every five minutes to tell you what the weather is like and how high the plane is etc etc. YOU'RE A GLORIFIED BUS DRIVER. JUST GET US WHERE IT SAYS ON THE TICKET.

visakanv 13y ago
Do you have a problem with bus drivers?
- gadders 13y ago
  No, bus drivers are awesome. But they don't feel the need to disturb 500 people every 20 minutes because they like the sound of their own voice.
  - Osmium 13y ago
    To any pilots reading this: I, for one, actually like hearing from you from time to time. It's reassuring to hear. Especially in light of this thread!
    - gadders 13y ago
      Make it a channel on the in-flight entertainment them. Let people opt in.
mmariani 13y ago
Yeah right! Last time I checked starting up a bus was easy as starting up an airbus. ;) [1] [1] http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e54_1379836442 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e54_1379836442
- victorhooi 13y ago
  I couldn't tell at the beginning whether this was a spoof or not, lol but nope, it's a genuine training video...lol. It makes you think of all those movies where the protagonist, with no experience suddenly leaps into action and pilots the plane to safety. Question for pilots - if you learn one plane, can you pick them all up? Or are they all vastly different?
  - sokoloff 13y ago
    I'm only moderately experienced (1200 hours or so, single and multi-engine rated). Put me in any airliner with all systems working (dead crew, no mechanical faults, weather above minimums and sufficient fuel), and I'll get the thing to a safe landing 999 out of 1000. I can't start it; I might not be able to taxi it in to the ramp; I surely can't diagnose system faults on an unfamiliar plane, but it's easy to get it to the ground and generally easy to get it stopped (especially if you choose an 8000+ runway, rather than the 5000 foot that might have been the original destination). The vast differences don't matter much when everything is working and there are plenty of margins and you only have to land/stop.
jessedhillon 13y ago
YOU'RE A GLORIFIED BUS DRIVER. I hate this type of sentiment. Guess what: most programmers are glorified plumbers!
- gadders 13y ago
  Yeah, we're all glorified something. It's when a profession has an inflated sense of itself that it rankles.
  - ballard 13y ago
    Yup. Work is work. Anyone too pretty to GSD is a waste of space, including CEOs.
- mahyarm 13y ago
  And doctors are glorified human body technicians.
kunai 13y ago
I hate when people equate being at the helm of a majestic craft to being a bus driver. There's far, FAR more akin to sailing than driving when you fly aircraft. Fluid dynamics are very similar, regardless of whether it's water or air you're sailing through. I don't think being a sailor has ever been a shameful profession; much the opposite, in fact.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  Noone was saying anything about shameful professions; but, just like if I was a passenger in a sail-ship, I wouldn't like the ship captain to interrupt whatever I'm doing in my cabin to state what is the wind direction today; I wouldn't also like the air-ship captain to interrupt the movie with the notification about airspeed and air temperature up in the sky. Let him worry about the majestic flying, and let the passengers mind their own business.

3pt14159 13y ago

Why don't pilots learn to code then? They'd like, triple their salary and there would be only upside!

TheAnimus 13y ago
Myself, I think this would be safer. I disagree with the other pilot (but I'm only PPL) on his views about sleeping during boring stages of flight. Say for instance you've piloted badly into a CB, you suffer a freezing on your pitot static systems. The autopilot disengages. If you were asleep, it might take a while for you to get your act together, co-ordinate to ascertain who has the flight controls and start CRM procedures. If you were wide awake, thinking how to solve this tricksy problem, you might do a better job as your mind is already warmed up!
- andrewflnr 13y ago
  Personally, it takes me a long time to disengage my mind from "this tricksy problem" and bring it back around to real life. I suspect this delay is comparable to that for waking up with adrenalin. Anyway, no matter what, the policy is probably going to be that at least one pilot is awake with their mind on the job at all times.

mistercow 13y ago

>and uh-oh what the fuck is going on So presumably you would have an alarm that wakes up the pilot if this happens. Here's the problem: humans wake up pretty slowly. For 10 minutes or so after you wake up, you might as well be drunk as far as your reaction time and judgment are concerned. I don't know if this has been tested in high stress situations, and I would guess that the "warm up time" is faster if your adrenaline is pumping, but it's still going to be a lot worse than having already been awake.

brianmcconnell 13y ago
There are two pilots. So assume they sleep in shifts. The point is that the several hours en route are a good time for the pilots to rest. Takeoff and landing are the riskiest phases of flight. I'm mainly concerned that the pilots are on top of their game then.
JshWright 13y ago
I wake up with a hit of adrenaline a couple times a week (thanks to Plectron tones going off, indicating an emergency call of some nature). I'd say that 'might as well be drunk' period lasts around 30 seconds for me (the process of getting dressed is generally just a foggy blur...). By the time I'm moving toward the truck, I'm more or less firing on all cylinders. 30 seconds is still an awfully long time in a plane when stuff is going sideways...
Malician 13y ago
This is true, but the chance of an incident occurring during neither takeoff or landing, when both pilots happen to be asleep at the same time is fairly low. On the other hand, sleep deprivation (which as the article mentions, can be far worse than being legally drunk) is common and pilots probably often perform the most difficult parts of the flight while under its effects. I would think the risks of pilots sleeping (and, very rarely, getting caught unprepared for an emergency) would be minimal compared to the risks of pilots being regularly incapacitated by fatigue during the most difficult parts of the flight.

nicholassmith 13y ago

It'd make sense for a sleep schedule on flights over 5 hours, let each pilot get an hour sleep after an hour or so in. That way both are rested well before they need to worry about landing. ('bang their favorite stewardess/steward', wait, that still happens? I suppose it could be fitted around a sleep schedule)