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If you want to live abroad and pay no US taxes, shouldn't one also give up rights to any entitlement services from the US government during that period? Otherw

If you want to live abroad and pay no US taxes, shouldn't one also give up rights to any entitlement services from the US government during that period? Otherwise, US tax payers are subsidizing free riders. If I'm a US citizen, but spend my whole life working in another country, should I be entitled to draw social security checks from the US? This would seem to create a moral hazard, as if you could find a tax shelter jurisdiction, you could work there, pay little to no taxes, and still cost the US government to support you.

bsullivan01 13y ago
If I'm a US citizen, but spend my whole life working in another country, should I be entitled to draw social security checks from the US? You are NOT entitled and you will NOT draw jack from Social Security--unless you paid in for at least 10 years. Then, that is your money. If you move to US and are dirt poor, I suppose you may get some state aid, medicaid etc but that's a basic right to anyone that lives there. It probably balances out as many will retire, say to Mexico, and not use those services.
- cromwellian 13y ago
  Social Security is not a savings account. Even if you paid in for 10 years, you can easily draw more than you put in.
  - bsullivan01 13y ago
    Social Security is not a savings account. Even if you paid in for 10 years, you can easily draw more than you put in. Or you can die while the first check is still in the mail. That's the system the Fed set up
lgbr 13y ago
Generally, government retirement programs aren't really tied to citizenship. You have to have contributed to social security for a number of years to receive benefits. I'm a US citizen, but my income is German, so I will ultimately receive German retirement benefits. Living abroad, there are few benefits I'm actually entitled to. In some third world nations, if I'm arrested, then I could receive help at the embassy's expense. But I live in a first world country. I receive zero benefits from the US government. I can't think of a single service the US government provides me. In fact, they hold a monopoly on many of the services I need. If I simply want to notarize a form, I have to get to a consulate and then pay $50 (something I get for free in the US). And yet I have to file taxes and sometimes PAY taxes. And here's an even worse bit: I get exempted from paying on the first ~$90k of foreign earned income, great. But in order to get that benefit, I'm not allowed to spend more than 30 days in any year in the US. That just means I'm not going to visit my home country at all, because if I visit family for 29 days, and later in the year I need to come back home for a funeral or other emergency, well, that would be a trip that could cost upwards of $20k in US taxes.
- cromwellian 13y ago
  That seems true in the general case, but not in the specific. One can still obtain SSI if you never worked a day in your life, assuming you can shelter your income to pass the means test, and then return to live in the US. It's not a very likely scenario, because if you have the wherewithal to live abroad and shelter income, the paltry SSI isn't worth the effort. Still, it begs the question if citizens have some obligation to pay some minimum level of taxes, albeit small, for the basic services and protections one would still expect as a citizen: the right to vote, the salaries of your representatives, courts and foreign service, etc.

bsullivan01 13y ago

If I'm a US citizen, but spend my whole life working in another country, should I be entitled to draw social security checks from the US? You are NOT entitled and you will NOT draw jack from Social Security--unless you paid in for at least 10 years. Then, that is your money. If you move to US and are dirt poor, I suppose you may get some state aid, medicaid etc but that's a basic right to anyone that lives there. It probably balances out as many will retire, say to Mexico, and not use those services.

cromwellian 13y ago
Social Security is not a savings account. Even if you paid in for 10 years, you can easily draw more than you put in.
- bsullivan01 13y ago
  Social Security is not a savings account. Even if you paid in for 10 years, you can easily draw more than you put in. Or you can die while the first check is still in the mail. That's the system the Fed set up

lgbr 13y ago

Generally, government retirement programs aren't really tied to citizenship. You have to have contributed to social security for a number of years to receive benefits. I'm a US citizen, but my income is German, so I will ultimately receive German retirement benefits. Living abroad, there are few benefits I'm actually entitled to. In some third world nations, if I'm arrested, then I could receive help at the embassy's expense. But I live in a first world country. I receive zero benefits from the US government. I can't think of a single service the US government provides me. In fact, they hold a monopoly on many of the services I need. If I simply want to notarize a form, I have to get to a consulate and then pay $50 (something I get for free in the US). And yet I have to file taxes and sometimes PAY taxes. And here's an even worse bit: I get exempted from paying on the first ~$90k of foreign earned income, great. But in order to get that benefit, I'm not allowed to spend more than 30 days in any year in the US. That just means I'm not going to visit my home country at all, because if I visit family for 29 days, and later in the year I need to come back home for a funeral or other emergency, well, that would be a trip that could cost upwards of $20k in US taxes.

cromwellian 13y ago
That seems true in the general case, but not in the specific. One can still obtain SSI if you never worked a day in your life, assuming you can shelter your income to pass the means test, and then return to live in the US. It's not a very likely scenario, because if you have the wherewithal to live abroad and shelter income, the paltry SSI isn't worth the effort. Still, it begs the question if citizens have some obligation to pay some minimum level of taxes, albeit small, for the basic services and protections one would still expect as a citizen: the right to vote, the salaries of your representatives, courts and foreign service, etc.