3 ms·
Companies put up barriers for applicants, then wonder why they can't find anyone. A big thing for me is references. I have good references but I don't like to
by pastProlog 13y ago
Companies put up barriers for applicants, then wonder why they can't find anyone.
A big thing for me is references. I have good references but I don't like to bother people. These are often from bosses who I worked with four years before and have only had sporadic contact with since, I don't want to be asking for favors every other contact.
Some companies, in e-mails before I even talk to anyone want me to send them references. I mean it's not like people ask for references as the last step before making an offer.
So what I have to do is when I'm looking for work, contact all my references, make sure my phone # etc. for them is current, and ask if they'll give me a reference - they always say yes. I figure I'm then good for the next few weeks/months in terms of that.
But it also means I basically have to make the major commitment of saying I want another job. Then I go looking and look until I find one.
If people were not so free with asking for references before I even talk to someone on the phone even, I could look for work at my leisure. If a headhunter contacted me, even if I wasn't looking, I could talk to the company. If they said they were almost set with the decision and just wanted some references, then I could do that as a last step.
Really it limits when I am available to hear offers. I am only open for offers every 2-3 years, in the weeks and months I am looking for a new job. I'm not open 18 months into a job, because I'm not going to hassle 3 old bosses for one company which hasn't even decided if they want to do a phone interview with me yet.
Of course I can always say I don't give references until later in the process, but usually it's some HR drone handing me a sheet and telling me to fill it out. If I don't put contact for references they tell me I should fill that in. It's like I'm sloppy for not bringing contact information, or have something to hide in not wanting to hand out reference information freely. People can say "tell 'them' so-and-so" but there's no them, there's an HR information sheet and some HR drone only peripherally connected with the hiring process.
It's not a big deal for me, it just limits my availability for talking to a 4-6 week cycle out of every 100-150 weeks. Companies throw up these barriers against themselves, then wonder why they can't find people.
There's other things as well. I work from 9 to 5. But companies want me to come in at 10 AM, I wait around 30 minutes for the first person to talk to me, then they want me to talk to someone else etc. Then two people who I have to talk to before getting hired are busy or not there. Also, if I schedule one a vacation day during the week, my current company might wonder what I'm doing. How am I supposed to make time for these long, drawn out interviews during the work week?
Then of course there is specialization. Wanting someone who knows a language like C++ is fine. Even wanting someone who knows OpenGL is fine. Or even more specifically, OpenGL ES if OpenGL is too general. But then they want people who know who Objective C for Apple hooks into C++ with OpenGL ES, as opposed to someone who has maybe been doing Java and JNI hooks into C++ with OpenGL ES. Or if that is not specific enough, then something even more specific.
Or it might say BSCS required. So if you're a few classes short - tough luck.
The entire interview process is geared towards company's establishing their dominance in the relationship from the get-go. You go hassle your old bosses, asking them to put in a good word for you. You come here when you're supposed to be working. And so on. Companies throw up these barriers as if there is a huge excess of good programmers they can pick and choose from. When that pool dries up, do they think, gee, maybe we should change how we interview? Of course not, they just complain how they can't find talented developers, and lobby Washington so that foreign programmers don't have to hop through the immigration hoops everyone else has to.
They don't see a lack of talented programmers, they see a lack of a large pool of talented programmers they can put over a barrel. Because otherwise they would have changed how they do interviewing.
While they only have the option of griping about lack of talent, we have options beyond griping about interviews. With the cloud, growth of mobile and app stores etc., as everyone says, now it's easier than ever to get your own personal (or partnered) income stream going. Hopefully mine grows to the point where the spectre about potentially having to go on a job interview ever again diminishes to nothing. I dislike enough the more easy interviews about whether I will consult on a project for a few months.
- aspensmonster 13y ago>The entire interview process is geared towards company's establishing their dominance in the relationship from the get-go.
- eli_gottlieb 13y agoWorth highlighting, but we don't have greentext on Hacker News ;-). >implying implications
- krapp 13y ago>Worth highlighting, but we don't have greentext on Hacker News ;-). we do now: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/178736 http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/178736
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago>just installed the script >greentext now displays >newfriends learn to triforce eventually
- krapp 13y ago>flawed victory...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- mason55 13y agoMan... I thought my hiring process sucked but after reading this I feel a lot better and can't wait to continue improving it.
- debacle 13y agoHeadhunters who ask for references out of the gate are going to be shotgunning your resume across their hiring portfolio. Generally speaking, references and a background check are the last thing a company asks for before hiring. It also sounds like you are applying for a lot of positions that are straw men - listed positions designed to be so specific that no good candidate can be found. It happens a lot in big companies (because sometimes HR makes it harder than it should be to promote from within) and companies that want to game the H1-B system. Finally, you probably don't want work at a company that asks software engineers to fill out applications, unless the application is very domain specific (like the YC application). That's a signal that the company doesn't value software engineering like they should.