4 ms·

Well, it may be a little different in the UK due to our many-tiered higher education system (Oxbridge, redbricks, ex-polytechnics and a moderate spectrum in bet

Well, it may be a little different in the UK due to our many-tiered higher education system (Oxbridge, redbricks, ex-polytechnics and a moderate spectrum in between), but I'll chip in my two copper pence either way. Actually, this is a question I've thought about a little too much, I'd wager, because, as a prospective undergraduate, I actually turned down an offer to read mathematics at Cambridge and decided to study at the University of Bristol instead. The latter is in itself a well-regarded institute, no doubt, but it cannot be said to have anything near the Oxbridge 'name-weight' (for want of a better term). Do I regret my choice? In some ways yes, in some ways no. The decision was very much informed by my particularly working class background - I did not believe I would have 'fit in' to the predominantly upper-middle-class culture of either the university or the city that surrounds it. In hindsight, my opinion hasn't changed at all. Bristol suffers many of the same problems as a university, but as a city it is as colourful as they come. I believe that forgoing the 'top tier' university worked such wonders for my social development (and, hence, my subsequent happiness) that I cannot bring myself to regret it wholesale. However, I can't help but feel there's an undeniable magic that happens when a highly selective and competitive institution brings a bunch of smart, young people together to explore their interests. Being a part of that could, as the "Disadvantages of an Elite Education" article suggests, have ended up insulating me from the 'regular world', but there is the odd occasion where I cant help but wonder what could have been if I'd chosen to experience it. Maybe that's what it takes, you know? I try not to dwell on it for long, though - I've left that to my folks! I've not planned to become a high-ranking politician or appear on BBC Radio 4 (yet), so a non-Oxbridge education hasn't hindered me much so far... Either way, though, I'm still (relatively) young and it will be a good few years before I can evaluate these decisions with any great degree of accuracy. We'll see, I guess.

rg 17y ago
Having lived in both the US and the UK, I'd observe that the prestige of one's university counts for MUCH more in the UK. To an American it is unbelieveable how much Brits focus on where they went to school (at all levels) rather than their abilities--and they are correct to do so, because other Brits use schools and universities as vital credentials. It's an aspect of the class system in the UK which doesn't exist in the same way in the US (note also the discussion of "working class background" versus "upper middle class culture"--not at all the same in the US). Someone from the UK might well obsess about a degree from an elite university, but in the US any good degree gets you over the threshold and able to compete on equal terms.
- johnnybgoode 17y ago
  It isn't exactly ideal in the US, but I can confirm that in the UK (and in almost all other countries, really) even more emphasis is placed on credentials.
- J_McQuade 17y ago
  Oh, I agree whole-heartedly. To be honest, I didn't even know how important the class system had remained in this country until I went to university - I had never met a privately educated person in my life, and suddenly I was surrounded by them! However, I do think that the emphasis on the prestige of one's university in this country (these days, at least) largely stems from a good decade or so of policies pushing perhaps less-than-ideal candidates into higher education. The replacement of vocational training with degree-level equivalents has in many ways depreciated the whole university process, leaving employers necessarily needing to look for the 'value' of a degree anywhere they can.
- jstevens85 17y ago
  Yes, Brits may put more focus on which university you go to, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. In the UK, getting into Oxbridge is nowhere near as difficult as getting into Harvard, Yale, Princeton. There are 24,000 undergraduate spots at Oxbridge for 60 million Brits, compared to 17,000 spots at HYP for 300 million Americans. Also, the application criteria at Oxbridge is far simpler. It is based entirely on academic potential. British universities are uninterested in extracurricular activities and "well-roundedness". In the US, very smart students with perfect grades are rejected from Harvard because they weren't editor of the school newspaper, because they got a D in History in 9th grade, or because they couldn't write a good essay about "If you were going to sing a song in a talent show, what would you sing and why?" That doesn't happen in the UK. If you are smart, work hard in school and get good grades, you'll get into Oxbridge. The same can't be said for getting into HYP. All of the British universities are public, so there doesn't exist the situation where students may choose to go to Berkeley instead of UPenn because they want to save money, or because they were offered a scholarship. Which university you attend in the UK tends to be a better indicator of intelligence and academic success than where you study in the US.
gms 17y ago
In what ways do you regret your choice? It wasn't clear from your comments. Also, Bristol is a lovely city.
nomoresecrets 17y ago
Even Bristol probably has issues. When I was choosing Universities I heard that for Bristol, the filtering for remaining places on the medicine course (i.e. for people who didn't make the grades the University asked for) was rumoured to start with these two questions: 1. Did you go to public school? (i.e. privately educated) 2. Was either of your parents a doctor? If you answered either of those with 'no', then the concensus was you could kiss that place goodbye.
IsaacL 17y ago
Currently a Warwick student. It's a great university, and I'm glad I chose to come here than try to apply for Oxbridge - I believe they are the best universities in the UK, but not by such a massive margin as people make out. If you say you're an Oxford student, anyone in the country will be impressed. Many people will not have heard of Warwick or Bristol university, or will assume they are just bog-standard institutions. I have to disagree, though, with the comment that anyone with brains can get into Oxbridge - from what I've heard, they seem much more obsessed with preliminary interviews than other UK institutions - potential applicants stay for several days of interviews IIRC. Many private school kids get special tuition to pass these tests, which is an advantage that state school kids don't have.

rg 17y ago

Having lived in both the US and the UK, I'd observe that the prestige of one's university counts for MUCH more in the UK. To an American it is unbelieveable how much Brits focus on where they went to school (at all levels) rather than their abilities--and they are correct to do so, because other Brits use schools and universities as vital credentials. It's an aspect of the class system in the UK which doesn't exist in the same way in the US (note also the discussion of "working class background" versus "upper middle class culture"--not at all the same in the US). Someone from the UK might well obsess about a degree from an elite university, but in the US any good degree gets you over the threshold and able to compete on equal terms.

johnnybgoode 17y ago
It isn't exactly ideal in the US, but I can confirm that in the UK (and in almost all other countries, really) even more emphasis is placed on credentials.
J_McQuade 17y ago
Oh, I agree whole-heartedly. To be honest, I didn't even know how important the class system had remained in this country until I went to university - I had never met a privately educated person in my life, and suddenly I was surrounded by them! However, I do think that the emphasis on the prestige of one's university in this country (these days, at least) largely stems from a good decade or so of policies pushing perhaps less-than-ideal candidates into higher education. The replacement of vocational training with degree-level equivalents has in many ways depreciated the whole university process, leaving employers necessarily needing to look for the 'value' of a degree anywhere they can.
jstevens85 17y ago
Yes, Brits may put more focus on which university you go to, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. In the UK, getting into Oxbridge is nowhere near as difficult as getting into Harvard, Yale, Princeton. There are 24,000 undergraduate spots at Oxbridge for 60 million Brits, compared to 17,000 spots at HYP for 300 million Americans. Also, the application criteria at Oxbridge is far simpler. It is based entirely on academic potential. British universities are uninterested in extracurricular activities and "well-roundedness". In the US, very smart students with perfect grades are rejected from Harvard because they weren't editor of the school newspaper, because they got a D in History in 9th grade, or because they couldn't write a good essay about "If you were going to sing a song in a talent show, what would you sing and why?" That doesn't happen in the UK. If you are smart, work hard in school and get good grades, you'll get into Oxbridge. The same can't be said for getting into HYP. All of the British universities are public, so there doesn't exist the situation where students may choose to go to Berkeley instead of UPenn because they want to save money, or because they were offered a scholarship. Which university you attend in the UK tends to be a better indicator of intelligence and academic success than where you study in the US.

gms 17y ago

In what ways do you regret your choice? It wasn't clear from your comments. Also, Bristol is a lovely city.

nomoresecrets 17y ago

Even Bristol probably has issues. When I was choosing Universities I heard that for Bristol, the filtering for remaining places on the medicine course (i.e. for people who didn't make the grades the University asked for) was rumoured to start with these two questions: 1. Did you go to public school? (i.e. privately educated) 2. Was either of your parents a doctor? If you answered either of those with 'no', then the concensus was you could kiss that place goodbye.

IsaacL 17y ago

Currently a Warwick student. It's a great university, and I'm glad I chose to come here than try to apply for Oxbridge - I believe they are the best universities in the UK, but not by such a massive margin as people make out. If you say you're an Oxford student, anyone in the country will be impressed. Many people will not have heard of Warwick or Bristol university, or will assume they are just bog-standard institutions. I have to disagree, though, with the comment that anyone with brains can get into Oxbridge - from what I've heard, they seem much more obsessed with preliminary interviews than other UK institutions - potential applicants stay for several days of interviews IIRC. Many private school kids get special tuition to pass these tests, which is an advantage that state school kids don't have.