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Just out of curiosity, do those "reputation management" companies realize that in serving their clients by making fake reviews, they help destroy end-consumer t

by fotbr 13y ago

Just out of curiosity, do those "reputation management" companies realize that in serving their clients by making fake reviews, they help destroy end-consumer trust? In many ways, it's the old SEO argument all over again - gaming a system to increase ratings eventually erodes trust in that system, making those increased ratings less valuable. At the same time, refusing to game the system means your business loses potential eyeballs/customers/etc, so one is left with the old rock vs hard place situation.

drakaal 13y ago
I don't do reputation management anymore. Now I build tools to do real reputation analysis, and fight the very things I used to do. I'm like Darth Vader in the last few moments of his life... Only I plan to live a long while. At Stremor.com we have technology that "breaks" SEO so we have better search results at http://www.samuru.com http://www.samuru.com than you would have using link authority. We have tech that can detect writing styles to tell that 6 reviews all came from the same person. We can do this for things like YELP or Amazon product reviews. We also do this to detect web content that was a Paid Review.
- flanbiscuit 13y ago
  so can I pass Samuru a link to a particular Amazon product and it'll tell me how many of the reviews have a similar writing style therefore possibly being fake?
  - drakaal 13y ago
    We don't expose that as an API in that way. We are rolling out features, but I am not sure flagging reviews as fake will be something we make "public" instead we'd license that to a company like amazon. Otherwise on the small percentage we get wrong we might have some sort of liability.
  - fotbr 13y ago
    That would be an interesting service to provide. More data points for companies (x people were interested enough to check reviews with us) and end-consumers get a better feeling for the reviews. I'm not sure how you'd turn a profit with it, unless the data points for companies prove valuable enough. I also don't know how you'd keep from turning such a service into yet another system to be gamed.
- shpxnvz 13y ago
  > Now I build tools to do real reputation analysis, and fight the very things I used to do. I'm like Darth Vader in the last few moments of his life... Really this just reads like you figured out a way to get paid to play both sides against each other. Hey, I'm not judging, in fact I say more power to you for figuring out how to make a buck, but casting yourself as some sort of redeemed hero seems a bit over the top.
redblacktree 13y ago
Classic prisoners' dilemma.
- gtremper 13y ago
  I think its more of a case of the tragedy of the commons.
  - crusso 13y ago
    Opportunistic douchebaggery.
    - mathattack 13y ago
      I can't add any value beyond this comment.
  - redblacktree 13y ago
    You're right. That's better.
  - mistercow 13y ago
    Tragedy of the commons can be viewed as a specific form of the prisoner's dilemma.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> Just out of curiosity, do those "reputation management" companies realize that in serving their clients by making fake reviews, they help destroy end-consumer trust? The thing with Tragedy of the Commons is that recognizing the fact that it exists doesn't change the fact that defection is still the optimum reward-maximizing strategy. > In many ways, it's the old SEO argument all over again - gaming a system to increase ratings eventually erodes trust in that system, making those increased ratings less valuable. And not gaming the system means that you get less short-term returns while everyone else games the system, gets better short-term returns, and still erodes public trust in the system.
aaron695 13y ago
> do those "reputation management" companies realize that in serving their clients by making fake reviews, they help destroy end-consumer trust? Don't really see the relevance this is advertising and most industries in general. Look at the clothing industry, we all could be wearing sacks right now, but people realised if I wear a nicer sack than everyone else it'll up my born attractiveness and so the race begins, back to where we started worrying about clothing as well as dealing with our born attractiveness. Do the people participating in these industries know they are not improving the world and destroying things like customer trust, probably not. But that's most people.

by fotbr 13y ago

drakaal 13y ago

I don't do reputation management anymore. Now I build tools to do real reputation analysis, and fight the very things I used to do. I'm like Darth Vader in the last few moments of his life... Only I plan to live a long while. At Stremor.com we have technology that "breaks" SEO so we have better search results at http://www.samuru.com http://www.samuru.com than you would have using link authority. We have tech that can detect writing styles to tell that 6 reviews all came from the same person. We can do this for things like YELP or Amazon product reviews. We also do this to detect web content that was a Paid Review.

flanbiscuit 13y ago
so can I pass Samuru a link to a particular Amazon product and it'll tell me how many of the reviews have a similar writing style therefore possibly being fake?
- drakaal 13y ago
  We don't expose that as an API in that way. We are rolling out features, but I am not sure flagging reviews as fake will be something we make "public" instead we'd license that to a company like amazon. Otherwise on the small percentage we get wrong we might have some sort of liability.
- fotbr 13y ago
  That would be an interesting service to provide. More data points for companies (x people were interested enough to check reviews with us) and end-consumers get a better feeling for the reviews. I'm not sure how you'd turn a profit with it, unless the data points for companies prove valuable enough. I also don't know how you'd keep from turning such a service into yet another system to be gamed.
shpxnvz 13y ago
> Now I build tools to do real reputation analysis, and fight the very things I used to do. I'm like Darth Vader in the last few moments of his life... Really this just reads like you figured out a way to get paid to play both sides against each other. Hey, I'm not judging, in fact I say more power to you for figuring out how to make a buck, but casting yourself as some sort of redeemed hero seems a bit over the top.

redblacktree 13y ago

Classic prisoners' dilemma.

gtremper 13y ago
I think its more of a case of the tragedy of the commons.
- crusso 13y ago
  Opportunistic douchebaggery.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    I can't add any value beyond this comment.
- redblacktree 13y ago
  You're right. That's better.
- mistercow 13y ago
  Tragedy of the commons can be viewed as a specific form of the prisoner's dilemma.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> Just out of curiosity, do those "reputation management" companies realize that in serving their clients by making fake reviews, they help destroy end-consumer trust? The thing with Tragedy of the Commons is that recognizing the fact that it exists doesn't change the fact that defection is still the optimum reward-maximizing strategy. > In many ways, it's the old SEO argument all over again - gaming a system to increase ratings eventually erodes trust in that system, making those increased ratings less valuable. And not gaming the system means that you get less short-term returns while everyone else games the system, gets better short-term returns, and still erodes public trust in the system.

aaron695 13y ago

> do those "reputation management" companies realize that in serving their clients by making fake reviews, they help destroy end-consumer trust? Don't really see the relevance this is advertising and most industries in general. Look at the clothing industry, we all could be wearing sacks right now, but people realised if I wear a nicer sack than everyone else it'll up my born attractiveness and so the race begins, back to where we started worrying about clothing as well as dealing with our born attractiveness. Do the people participating in these industries know they are not improving the world and destroying things like customer trust, probably not. But that's most people.