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Hold on. The US may have many faults, but claiming that it's not "any better" than China in regards to human rights or protection of individual liberties is jus

Hold on. The US may have many faults, but claiming that it's not "any better" than China in regards to human rights or protection of individual liberties is just asinine. China put down a peaceful protest using tanks. Hundreds of protesters and dissidents were killed. Some by being shot on the spot, some by being run over by tanks, many more by being executed for the crime of protesting the government. People in China have a legitimate fear that criticism of their leaders could lead to arrest, imprisonment, or even execution. That's a rational fear borne out by decades of evidence showing the consequences of being a political activist in China.

pavs 13y ago
With how many countries did the US engage in pre-emptive wars with false premise and without much if any support from rest of the world in the last few decades, which resulted in 100s of thousands of death? Lets not forget the US financed dictators that killed many more and the topplings of democratically elected governments that resulted in civil wars and more deaths... And now compare that with Chinese record, or does it not fall under "human rights" category? American exceptionalism is the most disgusting theory if there ever was one.
- pm90 13y ago
  All good points, but we're talking about how a country treats its _own_ citizens. And in this regards, the US is far better than most other countries, most certainly China.
  - pavs 13y ago
    USA has the highest incarceration rate than any country in the world. I have lived in USA for 12 years of my life, perception of having freedom and actually having freedom is not the same thing. At least from my experience I can tell you that most americans don't even know the difference. So much so that most americans will somehow find a justification for all the international crimes against humanity that the american government has done over so many years, sleeping well at night thinking their government actually cares about them and their flimsy perception of freedom.
    - ianstallings 13y ago
      Well, why don't you pack your stuff up and go home? It's terrible here after all. It gets old, people coming to the US because they see opportunity, and then being entitled sanctimonious fools. Never lifting a hand to make it better, but quick to pipe up when it's time to critique, making broad statements about how everyone here is so misinformed. You think the average person in China is any different than the average American? Over 110M+ Chinese people can't even read. I really doubt they are over contemplating all of the human-rights abuses in the world by nation-states, including their own. And I bet they sleep just fine too.
      - pavs 13y ago
        I did pack my stuff and go home... But something to remember, having a problem with the American Government doesn't mean having a problem with the american people. Too many people confuses that.
        ianstallings 13y ago
        You weren't talking about the American Government when you said "most Americans" and then went on to basically say that their attitude is disgusting. I didn't confuse anything.
        pavs 13y ago
        Lets break it down and I am sure I might have been a little confusing myself. - I condemn the American Government. - I condemn most of the American people for their general apathy towards the human rights violations of their government both outside and inside their country. - But I also realize that the American Government have most americans either too busy, too distracted or have them misinformed through propaganda campaign to have any serious widespread opposition to their action. The Government have all powerful multiple secret service organization that works full time to make sure there is no serious threat to the government status quo (among other things), under the pretence of national security. - I can go on say that the actions of the government should not make the people of the country complacent of their crimes. After many generations of the same old foreign policy, this line of talk starts of get a little old, at some point someone need to stand up say you should also be just as liable as your government because even after knowing their crimes, you didn't do anything about it. So yes, I do have a problem with the American Government, and I do think most americans are fault for not checking their government - BUT I don't have any problem with american people in general.
- melange 13y ago
  True but irrelevant to the parent's point.

pavs 13y ago

With how many countries did the US engage in pre-emptive wars with false premise and without much if any support from rest of the world in the last few decades, which resulted in 100s of thousands of death? Lets not forget the US financed dictators that killed many more and the topplings of democratically elected governments that resulted in civil wars and more deaths... And now compare that with Chinese record, or does it not fall under "human rights" category? American exceptionalism is the most disgusting theory if there ever was one.

pm90 13y ago
All good points, but we're talking about how a country treats its _own_ citizens. And in this regards, the US is far better than most other countries, most certainly China.
- pavs 13y ago
  USA has the highest incarceration rate than any country in the world. I have lived in USA for 12 years of my life, perception of having freedom and actually having freedom is not the same thing. At least from my experience I can tell you that most americans don't even know the difference. So much so that most americans will somehow find a justification for all the international crimes against humanity that the american government has done over so many years, sleeping well at night thinking their government actually cares about them and their flimsy perception of freedom.
  - ianstallings 13y ago
    Well, why don't you pack your stuff up and go home? It's terrible here after all. It gets old, people coming to the US because they see opportunity, and then being entitled sanctimonious fools. Never lifting a hand to make it better, but quick to pipe up when it's time to critique, making broad statements about how everyone here is so misinformed. You think the average person in China is any different than the average American? Over 110M+ Chinese people can't even read. I really doubt they are over contemplating all of the human-rights abuses in the world by nation-states, including their own. And I bet they sleep just fine too.
    - pavs 13y ago
      I did pack my stuff and go home... But something to remember, having a problem with the American Government doesn't mean having a problem with the american people. Too many people confuses that.
      - ianstallings 13y ago
        You weren't talking about the American Government when you said "most Americans" and then went on to basically say that their attitude is disgusting. I didn't confuse anything.
        pavs 13y ago
        Lets break it down and I am sure I might have been a little confusing myself. - I condemn the American Government. - I condemn most of the American people for their general apathy towards the human rights violations of their government both outside and inside their country. - But I also realize that the American Government have most americans either too busy, too distracted or have them misinformed through propaganda campaign to have any serious widespread opposition to their action. The Government have all powerful multiple secret service organization that works full time to make sure there is no serious threat to the government status quo (among other things), under the pretence of national security. - I can go on say that the actions of the government should not make the people of the country complacent of their crimes. After many generations of the same old foreign policy, this line of talk starts of get a little old, at some point someone need to stand up say you should also be just as liable as your government because even after knowing their crimes, you didn't do anything about it. So yes, I do have a problem with the American Government, and I do think most americans are fault for not checking their government - BUT I don't have any problem with american people in general.
melange 13y ago
True but irrelevant to the parent's point.