5 ms·

This is hypocritical. US and the whole Western world is not any better on this.

podperson 13y ago
It's only a bit hypocritical. There are actual degrees of hypocrisy! The US constitution frequently prevents the US government (and US State governments) from enacting laws or enforcing previously enacted laws. This can be good or bad depending on your point of view, but it's a simple fact that in the US we have constitutional rights that are actually pretty potent. Do the police in China have to read people their rights? Guantanomo is a travesty, but it's a travesty precisely because the US Constitution is difficult for the government to ignore. A more interesting example is many former British colonies, such as Australia, and Britain itself manage to have quite free societies despite having almost no constitutional protections. In China I'd say you don't even seem to have the basic rights people in the English system and its descendants enjoy thanks to the Magna Carta (Habeas Corpus, for example, or the right to a fair trial. Wasn't there just a very high profile case in China where the accused was very vocal one day and then suddenly had nothing to say the next?)
- cygwin98 13y ago
  It's only a bit hypocritical. There are actual degrees of hypocrisy! I don't get this. Did you mean there are 50% hypocrites and 90% hypocrites? And the 50% hypocrites can always laugh it out at the 90% hypocrites, because he/she may think he/she has a moral high ground due to less hypocrisy. Heck, that's mouthful.
  - ugexe 13y ago
    I don't get this. Are you saying someone who is a hypocrite 1% of the time is equal to someone who is a hypocrite 99% of the time?
    - Gigablah 13y ago
      Yes, they are both hypocrites :) (Seriously though, degree and frequency are different things)
      - maaku 13y ago
        Maybe, but you and cygwin98 are seemingly the only ones confused/pedantic enough to care.
        Gigablah 13y ago
        Hey now, there are different degrees of caring. I care 10% and cygwin98 cares 90%.
  - mahyarm 13y ago
    It's a matter of degree. The difference between a thief who steals bread, a thief who steals cars and a thief who steals %10 of GDP through political and financial trickery.
    - randallsquared 13y ago
      Kind of a bell curve, then? :/
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Hold on. The US may have many faults, but claiming that it's not "any better" than China in regards to human rights or protection of individual liberties is just asinine. China put down a peaceful protest using tanks. Hundreds of protesters and dissidents were killed. Some by being shot on the spot, some by being run over by tanks, many more by being executed for the crime of protesting the government. People in China have a legitimate fear that criticism of their leaders could lead to arrest, imprisonment, or even execution. That's a rational fear borne out by decades of evidence showing the consequences of being a political activist in China.
- pavs 13y ago
  With how many countries did the US engage in pre-emptive wars with false premise and without much if any support from rest of the world in the last few decades, which resulted in 100s of thousands of death? Lets not forget the US financed dictators that killed many more and the topplings of democratically elected governments that resulted in civil wars and more deaths... And now compare that with Chinese record, or does it not fall under "human rights" category? American exceptionalism is the most disgusting theory if there ever was one.
  - pm90 13y ago
    All good points, but we're talking about how a country treats its _own_ citizens. And in this regards, the US is far better than most other countries, most certainly China.
    - pavs 13y ago
      USA has the highest incarceration rate than any country in the world. I have lived in USA for 12 years of my life, perception of having freedom and actually having freedom is not the same thing. At least from my experience I can tell you that most americans don't even know the difference. So much so that most americans will somehow find a justification for all the international crimes against humanity that the american government has done over so many years, sleeping well at night thinking their government actually cares about them and their flimsy perception of freedom.
ianstallings 13y ago
No, It would be hypocritical if they said unlike the US or the western world. But they never said that.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
So essentially, because the whole western world isn't perfect, we are not any better in terms of human rights and democracy than the PRC which hardly even tries?

It's only a bit hypocritical. There are actual degrees of hypocrisy! The US constitution frequently prevents the US government (and US State governments) from enacting laws or enforcing previously enacted laws. This can be good or bad depending on your point of view, but it's a simple fact that in the US we have constitutional rights that are actually pretty potent. Do the police in China have to read people their rights? Guantanomo is a travesty, but it's a travesty precisely because the US Constitution is difficult for the government to ignore. A more interesting example is many former British colonies, such as Australia, and Britain itself manage to have quite free societies despite having almost no constitutional protections. In China I'd say you don't even seem to have the basic rights people in the English system and its descendants enjoy thanks to the Magna Carta (Habeas Corpus, for example, or the right to a fair trial. Wasn't there just a very high profile case in China where the accused was very vocal one day and then suddenly had nothing to say the next?)

cygwin98 13y ago
It's only a bit hypocritical. There are actual degrees of hypocrisy! I don't get this. Did you mean there are 50% hypocrites and 90% hypocrites? And the 50% hypocrites can always laugh it out at the 90% hypocrites, because he/she may think he/she has a moral high ground due to less hypocrisy. Heck, that's mouthful.
- ugexe 13y ago
  I don't get this. Are you saying someone who is a hypocrite 1% of the time is equal to someone who is a hypocrite 99% of the time?
  - Gigablah 13y ago
    Yes, they are both hypocrites :) (Seriously though, degree and frequency are different things)
    - maaku 13y ago
      Maybe, but you and cygwin98 are seemingly the only ones confused/pedantic enough to care.
      - Gigablah 13y ago
        Hey now, there are different degrees of caring. I care 10% and cygwin98 cares 90%.
- mahyarm 13y ago
  It's a matter of degree. The difference between a thief who steals bread, a thief who steals cars and a thief who steals %10 of GDP through political and financial trickery.
  - randallsquared 13y ago
    Kind of a bell curve, then? :/

InclinedPlane 13y ago

Hold on. The US may have many faults, but claiming that it's not "any better" than China in regards to human rights or protection of individual liberties is just asinine. China put down a peaceful protest using tanks. Hundreds of protesters and dissidents were killed. Some by being shot on the spot, some by being run over by tanks, many more by being executed for the crime of protesting the government. People in China have a legitimate fear that criticism of their leaders could lead to arrest, imprisonment, or even execution. That's a rational fear borne out by decades of evidence showing the consequences of being a political activist in China.

pavs 13y ago
With how many countries did the US engage in pre-emptive wars with false premise and without much if any support from rest of the world in the last few decades, which resulted in 100s of thousands of death? Lets not forget the US financed dictators that killed many more and the topplings of democratically elected governments that resulted in civil wars and more deaths... And now compare that with Chinese record, or does it not fall under "human rights" category? American exceptionalism is the most disgusting theory if there ever was one.
- pm90 13y ago
  All good points, but we're talking about how a country treats its _own_ citizens. And in this regards, the US is far better than most other countries, most certainly China.
  - pavs 13y ago
    USA has the highest incarceration rate than any country in the world. I have lived in USA for 12 years of my life, perception of having freedom and actually having freedom is not the same thing. At least from my experience I can tell you that most americans don't even know the difference. So much so that most americans will somehow find a justification for all the international crimes against humanity that the american government has done over so many years, sleeping well at night thinking their government actually cares about them and their flimsy perception of freedom.

ianstallings 13y ago

No, It would be hypocritical if they said unlike the US or the western world. But they never said that.

bayesianhorse 13y ago

So essentially, because the whole western world isn't perfect, we are not any better in terms of human rights and democracy than the PRC which hardly even tries?