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Try eating dinner with a group of current college kids and hoping they put their phones down to listen to you. There is no way the trend is going to reverse it

Try eating dinner with a group of current college kids and hoping they put their phones down to listen to you. There is no way the trend is going to reverse itself. I try not to be a cynic but on this topic it's impossible for me - what event could trigger a reversal to this behavior? What would make people prefer people again over digital distractions?

mhurron 13y ago
> what event could trigger a reversal to this behavior? The collapse of society and all of its support. Basically, you'll have to make them useless.
protonfish 13y ago
Most teenagers are self-absorbed little snots so I don't think blaming the phone is fair. This is not a "trend." Smartphones are still a very new technology and there is a gap between the changes they have made in our lives and the development of proper etiquette.
mhb 13y ago
Maybe we are just experiencing a transitional (decades?) phase en route to living entirely in the virtual realm. Do people in Second Life walk around looking at their phones?
- jimmaswell 13y ago
  Something similar I saw in Second Life that I found interesting was people reading comic books - you can get comic books that hover in front of your character's face that you can look at by going into first person, and other players can see the pages too.
sp332 13y ago
They are socializing with people, but physical presence matters less than it used to. They're not (mostly) playing games. They're generally chatting with their friends, or (if they're really bored) browsing content posted by a smallish list of facebook and twitter contacts. To trigger a reversal, you have to train people to be engaged, sympathetic, good at body language, and extremely talkative. Basically all the difficult interpersonal things that text chat can't do. Edit: technology isn't standing still, though! Snapchat is adding more personal video content to phones already.
- ZenoArrow 13y ago
  'physical presence matters less than it used to.' Physical presence matters just as much as it always did, what's lacking is the appreciation of how much is being missed.
  - sp332 13y ago
    If a smile from a stranger can cheer you up, imagine being surrounded by familiar voices each giving you a friendly "hi" and then moving on. It's not especially meaningful but it's a great feeling. Maybe it's more valuable than the option of actually connecting with whoever happens to be physically present.
    - ZenoArrow 13y ago
      "Maybe it's more valuable than the option of actually connecting with whoever happens to be physically present." That's where you and I disagree. Given the choice of minimal connections with those you know and fuller connections with those you don't know, I tend to prefer the latter. Perhaps it helps to think about it like this. Everyone has something interesting about them, and whilst you might not like everyone you meet, you can at least learn something from them. Openness to meeting new people is a very positive thing (in my opinion).
      - PeterisP 13y ago
        For many introverts, you'd prefer not to interact with those you don't know well - in an usual social setting you are already getting more interaction than you want/need, and any extra is unpleasant and unwelcome. You can use a phone not as a distraction, but as a (currently) socially acceptable excuse to avoid interaction. I mean, if someone you barely know wants to make smalltalk, it's generally not okay to tell them to fsck off, even if you'd prefer to be left alone, social norms are generally made by and for extroverts. But being "in phone" and ignoring them works - and if you can use it to connect with the few people you want to connect with, it's a plus.
aestra 13y ago
Nothing wrong with calling them out and telling them they are being very rude. You don't have to be rude about it yourself.
pjc50 13y ago
Fashion? There was a time when any group of people standing around would usually include at least one person smoking. That time is long past. Eventually it will be uncool old people with phones and cool young people with .. _something else_.
buo 13y ago
> what event could trigger a reversal to this behavior? People realising that addiction to stimulus results, over the years, in lower economic power and less overall happiness? I don't know if today's phone-addicted teens will end up with lower-paying jobs down the line, but it wouldn't surprise me.
- Phlarp 13y ago
  The hacker community has clearly created software that masses of people find incredibly useful and worthwhile. How is that success something to be compared to a cocaine addiction? Have you heard stories about people trading sexual favors for 20 more megabytes when their data has run out?
  - buo 13y ago
    I didn't compare smartphone addiction to cocaine addiction, which wrecks and ends lives. I do think, however, that something can be incredibly useful and worthwhile and still have some negative effects. Everything in moderation and all that. I believe that, in time (many years), people will figure out what these effects are and how to avoid them, just like (to oversimplify) one can enjoy wine without any ill effect.
  - pgeorgi 13y ago
    So you're saying this software is found less useful and worthwhile than cocaine since people aren't willing to prostitute themselves for another shot?
jkscm 13y ago
Yes yes, our youth is rotten to the core. Even more than the previous one and the one before. I think, understanding a new technology does not stop with technical details. We have to understand want this technology means to other people. The author talks about "real connections with the people around us", but how is a message I send to someone on the other end of the world unreal? If children send 3000 to 4000 messages a day, if true, you could describe this as a deep investment in communication and connections, but just not according to his definitions.
mercer 13y ago
Time and reflection, I think. I grew up in a culture where television was rather 'new'. Whenever we visited people, they would actually turn the television on. On the other hand, in my home culture the tv has been a presence for decades, and somewhere along the way we've decided that it is rude to turn on the tv when you have visitors. Now I am assuming that the situation in my home culture was similar when tv was new. I'm not at all certain about that.

mhurron 13y ago

> what event could trigger a reversal to this behavior? The collapse of society and all of its support. Basically, you'll have to make them useless.

protonfish 13y ago

Most teenagers are self-absorbed little snots so I don't think blaming the phone is fair. This is not a "trend." Smartphones are still a very new technology and there is a gap between the changes they have made in our lives and the development of proper etiquette.

mhb 13y ago

Maybe we are just experiencing a transitional (decades?) phase en route to living entirely in the virtual realm. Do people in Second Life walk around looking at their phones?

jimmaswell 13y ago
Something similar I saw in Second Life that I found interesting was people reading comic books - you can get comic books that hover in front of your character's face that you can look at by going into first person, and other players can see the pages too.

sp332 13y ago

They are socializing with people, but physical presence matters less than it used to. They're not (mostly) playing games. They're generally chatting with their friends, or (if they're really bored) browsing content posted by a smallish list of facebook and twitter contacts. To trigger a reversal, you have to train people to be engaged, sympathetic, good at body language, and extremely talkative. Basically all the difficult interpersonal things that text chat can't do. Edit: technology isn't standing still, though! Snapchat is adding more personal video content to phones already.

ZenoArrow 13y ago
'physical presence matters less than it used to.' Physical presence matters just as much as it always did, what's lacking is the appreciation of how much is being missed.
- sp332 13y ago
  If a smile from a stranger can cheer you up, imagine being surrounded by familiar voices each giving you a friendly "hi" and then moving on. It's not especially meaningful but it's a great feeling. Maybe it's more valuable than the option of actually connecting with whoever happens to be physically present.
  - ZenoArrow 13y ago
    "Maybe it's more valuable than the option of actually connecting with whoever happens to be physically present." That's where you and I disagree. Given the choice of minimal connections with those you know and fuller connections with those you don't know, I tend to prefer the latter. Perhaps it helps to think about it like this. Everyone has something interesting about them, and whilst you might not like everyone you meet, you can at least learn something from them. Openness to meeting new people is a very positive thing (in my opinion).
    - PeterisP 13y ago
      For many introverts, you'd prefer not to interact with those you don't know well - in an usual social setting you are already getting more interaction than you want/need, and any extra is unpleasant and unwelcome. You can use a phone not as a distraction, but as a (currently) socially acceptable excuse to avoid interaction. I mean, if someone you barely know wants to make smalltalk, it's generally not okay to tell them to fsck off, even if you'd prefer to be left alone, social norms are generally made by and for extroverts. But being "in phone" and ignoring them works - and if you can use it to connect with the few people you want to connect with, it's a plus.

aestra 13y ago

Nothing wrong with calling them out and telling them they are being very rude. You don't have to be rude about it yourself.

pjc50 13y ago

Fashion? There was a time when any group of people standing around would usually include at least one person smoking. That time is long past. Eventually it will be uncool old people with phones and cool young people with .. _something else_.

buo 13y ago

> what event could trigger a reversal to this behavior? People realising that addiction to stimulus results, over the years, in lower economic power and less overall happiness? I don't know if today's phone-addicted teens will end up with lower-paying jobs down the line, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Phlarp 13y ago
The hacker community has clearly created software that masses of people find incredibly useful and worthwhile. How is that success something to be compared to a cocaine addiction? Have you heard stories about people trading sexual favors for 20 more megabytes when their data has run out?
- buo 13y ago
  I didn't compare smartphone addiction to cocaine addiction, which wrecks and ends lives. I do think, however, that something can be incredibly useful and worthwhile and still have some negative effects. Everything in moderation and all that. I believe that, in time (many years), people will figure out what these effects are and how to avoid them, just like (to oversimplify) one can enjoy wine without any ill effect.
- pgeorgi 13y ago
  So you're saying this software is found less useful and worthwhile than cocaine since people aren't willing to prostitute themselves for another shot?

jkscm 13y ago

Yes yes, our youth is rotten to the core. Even more than the previous one and the one before. I think, understanding a new technology does not stop with technical details. We have to understand want this technology means to other people. The author talks about "real connections with the people around us", but how is a message I send to someone on the other end of the world unreal? If children send 3000 to 4000 messages a day, if true, you could describe this as a deep investment in communication and connections, but just not according to his definitions.

mercer 13y ago

Time and reflection, I think. I grew up in a culture where television was rather 'new'. Whenever we visited people, they would actually turn the television on. On the other hand, in my home culture the tv has been a presence for decades, and somewhere along the way we've decided that it is rude to turn on the tv when you have visitors. Now I am assuming that the situation in my home culture was similar when tv was new. I'm not at all certain about that.