5 ms·

Paying For Privacy?

44 points by precium 13y ago

cheshire137 13y ago
My team uses pull requests extensively. The master branch is considered good, clean, production-ready code. Anything you want to get into production gets there by way of a pull request. Want to add a feature? Fix a bug? Make a branch, do your thing, and create a pull request against master. The rest of the team reviews your code in the pull request; the comments in a pull request are an excellent feature. My job would be ridiculously harder without pull requests.
- Scriptor 13y ago
  Right, I thought one of the big benefits about pull requests was that it let other devs easily view the diffs before merging a change in, not to mention making it easier for people to discuss the changes. I guess if you don't want to do that then it's easier to just pass around patches and merge.
  - plorkyeran 13y ago
    Viewing changes in a pull request is no easier than viewing the changes in a patchset (or rather, if it is you're using the wrong tools). For an established team, a PR-based workflow and a mailing list based workflow (where you mail patchsets to the mailing list and discuss them there) are not very different, but PRs are a lot friendlier to outside contributors.
- lelandbatey 13y ago
  Exactly, the benefit of Github is exactly what it says on the tin: "Build software better, together." Or, like it says on my Github mug: "Github: social coding." Seriously, if it's just you the self hosting your git repos is much easier, cheaper, and you'll have a better handle on how git actually works. However, if you're on a team or dealing with other people, the collaborative features of Github are awesome. Once again, the correct answer is "use the right tool for the job."
- freshhawk 13y ago
  I find pull requests handy for working with semi-technical people, for repos only worked on by programmers we just use the format-patch/email workflow, and we have access to each others public repos (would be called "forks" in github parlance I guess). It's a much better system, faster, more powerful and more flexible but not centralized and you have to understand what you are doing. It's not like this is a feature github discovered and added. They made an easier, prettier and less powerful version of an existing feature. Certainly not a bad idea, git's command line UI is ridiculously bad UI so a super simple point and click interface was a fantastic way to grab market share and get non-command line people involved. > the comments in a pull request are an excellent feature Really? I mean, compared to nothing I guess it would seem great. But since I'm used to an email thread serving the same purpose those comments on github pull requests seem awful to me.
ehm_may 13y ago
I pay github for the same reason I pay heroku. It just works and I don't have to do anything. That is why they exist. Sure you can set up your own git server, but what do you do when it goes down?
- shocks 13y ago
  The same thing you do when GitHub goes down... PANIC and flock to HN to comment on a minor outage!!! - wait, no. git is a distributed system. You continue as you were and nothing changes.
- zdw 13y ago
  Most likely, you have a full copy of the repo on the local disk, and can just push it to another remote. In this way, DVCS's are resilient to individual server failure.
zdw 13y ago
I keep a lot of personal/private data in git repos. I'd rather have this data on my own hardware or servers I admin, can audit, can apply unusual SSH security policy to, etc. gitolite and gitlab are great Github replacements for this purpose. That said, I still use github (or bitbucket, etc.) when I want to share code - it's still the best place to do that. I just don't need their private service, which appears to be the same case as the author.
zrail 13y ago
Watch out with the sending email directly from an EC2 instance. You don't really have a fixed IP so rDNS isn't going to work very well, and that's still a front-line filter for a lot of big email providers.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  If you are an Amazon EC2 user, you can get started with Amazon SES for free. You can send 2,000 messages for free each day when you call Amazon SES from an Amazon EC2 instance directly or through AWS Elastic Beanstalk. Many applications are able to operate entirely within this free tier limit. http://aws.amazon.com/ses/pricing/ http://aws.amazon.com/ses/pricing/ You could also use Mailgun, mandrillapp.com, etc. I believe they all provide at least 10-12K emails/month for free, by calling a RESTful web api.
  - zrail 13y ago
    Yeah, those are all great options. I know for sure Mandrill lets you send SMTP through them and I think Mailgun does too. It's just a matter of configuring your Postfix server to relay through them.
- jlgaddis 13y ago
  Yep, some RBLs block most/all of EC2's address space, it seems. Or used to, at least, and that probably hasn't changed.
Systemic33 13y ago
In my opinion, and for almost any other remotely similar service, it's not about paying for privacy, it's about paying for convenience. You don't go home to get a beer, when you are going out, you pay extra money for the convenience of not having to carry around beer, an instead be able to buy it on the spot, in any wanted quanitity.
outside1234 13y ago
yet another article that values our time at $0. come on, we all make something like $80-130/hr. Are you really going to spend less than 1 hour maintain this sort-of-github instance you have?
- drdaeman 13y ago
  He gains not only hosting value from maintaining the instance, but also the experience. And the experience is a valuable asset that you can't really buy with money. Obviously, a sort of pre-built image to spawn "own" Gitolite/Gitlab/whatever instance would be nice, so noone but those particularly interested in the process would have to spend their time setting things up. But I suspect such images/build scripts already exist, it's just that I didn't even bothered to search for them.
  - addandsubtract 13y ago
    Check out turnkeyliniux.org. They offer prebuilt linux images of popular apps - including Gitlab: http://www.turnkeylinux.org/gitlab http://www.turnkeylinux.org/gitlab
programminggeek 13y ago
I pay because github is a fantastically useful tool. I am willing to pay for quality software. If I wasn't and other people like me weren't willing to pay for software, a lot of us wouldn't have jobs.
NovemberWest 13y ago
Kind of OT: I have just opened a free github account to follow a project. Any tips for a painfully pathetic n00b for learning to use github generally?
- jgoldsmith 13y ago
  If you understand Git well enough, then the only major difference Github adds is pull requests, which is a pretty intuitive concept once you understand Git branching. Try http://git-scm.com/ http://git-scm.com/ for a great (official) tutorial.
  - NovemberWest 13y ago
    I actually know nothing about Git. But thank you for replying. Will check the link. :-)
    - axus 13y ago
      I'd saved this link of an interactive "Learn Git" training program: http://pcottle.github.io/learnGitBranching http://pcottle.github.io/learnGitBranching
freshhawk 13y ago
Off topic: People who use Mother Teresa as the canonical example of selfless altruism need to read something about Mother Teresa so they don't look so silly.
- cgore 13y ago
  Yeah, no kidding. Feeding and providing medical care for the Untouchables in India? She should have made an iPhone app to help find friends in restaurants nearby, that would have made he a real selfless altriust.
  - gcb1 13y ago
    in her letters she said she was forbiden to provide actual health care. all they gave was a place for the sick to convalesce. also, she and most othe rreligious still advocate over population and against several sane health treatments. not to mention education. no little good religion does compensate for the long term damage.
    - cgore 13y ago
      They were given medicine, not just a place to convelesce, but even just providing a place to convalesce is a great mercy to people who were (and often still are) dying on the sides of the street, thrown away by their society as if they were nothing more than trash. But then, what do I know, I am sure that you must know vastly more than I do, seeing as to how as a Christian I must advocate against education now. I should write letters to all of the universities I have attended, asking them to please revoke my diplomas on the basis of my religious freedom.
    - lessnonymous 13y ago
      > she and most othe rreligious still advocate over population and against several sane health treatments. not to mention education What you talkin' 'bout Willis?
  - icebraining 13y ago
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_wor... http://m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/Mother-Teresa-saint-of-the-media-controversial-study-says/articleshow/18760028.cms http://m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/Mother-Teresa-saint-of-th...
xentronium 13y ago
If you don't use or like github features, you don't really need to pay for it. Sounds like common wisdom. OP listed points which do not define github. If you want unlimited private repos "in the cloud", just use bitbucket. Github provides excellent interface and workflow patterns for code collaboration. I don't know, maybe for some it's reasonable to swap patches via mail, but for me hassle of downloading attachments from gmail into the right folder is just not worth it. Also, laugh all you want, but rendered README.md and having all code at glance are life-savers. It's so much easier to get a hold of what another open source library does, if it has nicely formatted README with examples. Bonus points for gh-pages hosted docs.
gcb1 13y ago
summary: paying a vps is cheaper and gives you more than git hub. in my experience, pros: - full control (he is not using this as he and all other probably commit as user git) - commit hooks contra: - you take the time to setup, debug, maintain. (track all those pesky security updates) - you have to backup. - people already have their keys setup at github. also, about the paying for privacy... i have two github accounts. one with my real name another with a pseudonym. and to conclude, after some time, i just moved all my code to bitbucket. initially because i rather mercurial and they have both. but then because you get a few private repos
- drdaeman 13y ago
  > i have two github accounts. one with my real name another with a pseudonym. Until relatively recently (at least that was the case about an year ago) having multiple GH accounts was a TOS violation. (And I needed a pseudonymous account, so that drove me off to BitBucket.) They seem to have changed that, so you're not allowed to have more than one free account per human.
jasonlotito 13y ago
Just a reminder, if you want a private Git repo, you can always use BitBucket, which provides you free private repos. And, it's also an excellent service in it's own right.
- imperialWicket 13y ago
  +1 My public stuff all goes to github, and my private repos are all on BitBucket; virtually no cost to me that way and I use each service as it's promoted (imo).
javajosh 13y ago
First, I applaud the "rugged individualist" style of netizenship that the OP is advocating. Hear hear. But (and you knew that "but" was coming) github is particularly useful and not amenable to the kind of gaming that Facebook and Google have indulged in. Git is truly distributed, and if github ever tried to block or manipulate repos there are full copies all over the place. It would be very easy (and dare I say such action would come swiftly) to react to any such wayward behavior on the part of github, mainly because of the nature of git. So: definitely host your own git repo, but if you use github for collaborating on public open source projects, you really aren't running any kind of risk that github will ever hinder your access or control in anyway.
rarw 13y ago
I applaud the writer for his approach to making his own hub for his team. However, this is not a real 1-1 swap. In terms of pure functionality this may be an even exchange; his own platform might meet his needs just as well as GitHub. Yet it lacks major benefit - the community/public aspect of that environment. Duplicating that factor would take too much time an effort when you could just pay 7 bucks a month for the same thing. Sometimes, while its fun to reinvent things, it just makes more sense to use what's there.
joshontheweb 13y ago
How are you only paying $7? The lowest tier I can see is $25/month for 10 private repos.
lukehorvat 13y ago
How does using Amazon's services make you any less of a "product"?

44 points by precium 13y ago

My team uses pull requests extensively. The master branch is considered good, clean, production-ready code. Anything you want to get into production gets there by way of a pull request. Want to add a feature? Fix a bug? Make a branch, do your thing, and create a pull request against master. The rest of the team reviews your code in the pull request; the comments in a pull request are an excellent feature. My job would be ridiculously harder without pull requests.

Scriptor 13y ago
Right, I thought one of the big benefits about pull requests was that it let other devs easily view the diffs before merging a change in, not to mention making it easier for people to discuss the changes. I guess if you don't want to do that then it's easier to just pass around patches and merge.
- plorkyeran 13y ago
  Viewing changes in a pull request is no easier than viewing the changes in a patchset (or rather, if it is you're using the wrong tools). For an established team, a PR-based workflow and a mailing list based workflow (where you mail patchsets to the mailing list and discuss them there) are not very different, but PRs are a lot friendlier to outside contributors.
lelandbatey 13y ago
Exactly, the benefit of Github is exactly what it says on the tin: "Build software better, together." Or, like it says on my Github mug: "Github: social coding." Seriously, if it's just you the self hosting your git repos is much easier, cheaper, and you'll have a better handle on how git actually works. However, if you're on a team or dealing with other people, the collaborative features of Github are awesome. Once again, the correct answer is "use the right tool for the job."
freshhawk 13y ago
I find pull requests handy for working with semi-technical people, for repos only worked on by programmers we just use the format-patch/email workflow, and we have access to each others public repos (would be called "forks" in github parlance I guess). It's a much better system, faster, more powerful and more flexible but not centralized and you have to understand what you are doing. It's not like this is a feature github discovered and added. They made an easier, prettier and less powerful version of an existing feature. Certainly not a bad idea, git's command line UI is ridiculously bad UI so a super simple point and click interface was a fantastic way to grab market share and get non-command line people involved. > the comments in a pull request are an excellent feature Really? I mean, compared to nothing I guess it would seem great. But since I'm used to an email thread serving the same purpose those comments on github pull requests seem awful to me.

ehm_may 13y ago

I pay github for the same reason I pay heroku. It just works and I don't have to do anything. That is why they exist. Sure you can set up your own git server, but what do you do when it goes down?

shocks 13y ago
The same thing you do when GitHub goes down... PANIC and flock to HN to comment on a minor outage!!! - wait, no. git is a distributed system. You continue as you were and nothing changes.
zdw 13y ago
Most likely, you have a full copy of the repo on the local disk, and can just push it to another remote. In this way, DVCS's are resilient to individual server failure.

zdw 13y ago

I keep a lot of personal/private data in git repos. I'd rather have this data on my own hardware or servers I admin, can audit, can apply unusual SSH security policy to, etc. gitolite and gitlab are great Github replacements for this purpose. That said, I still use github (or bitbucket, etc.) when I want to share code - it's still the best place to do that. I just don't need their private service, which appears to be the same case as the author.

zrail 13y ago

Watch out with the sending email directly from an EC2 instance. You don't really have a fixed IP so rDNS isn't going to work very well, and that's still a front-line filter for a lot of big email providers.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
If you are an Amazon EC2 user, you can get started with Amazon SES for free. You can send 2,000 messages for free each day when you call Amazon SES from an Amazon EC2 instance directly or through AWS Elastic Beanstalk. Many applications are able to operate entirely within this free tier limit. http://aws.amazon.com/ses/pricing/ http://aws.amazon.com/ses/pricing/ You could also use Mailgun, mandrillapp.com, etc. I believe they all provide at least 10-12K emails/month for free, by calling a RESTful web api.
- zrail 13y ago
  Yeah, those are all great options. I know for sure Mandrill lets you send SMTP through them and I think Mailgun does too. It's just a matter of configuring your Postfix server to relay through them.
jlgaddis 13y ago
Yep, some RBLs block most/all of EC2's address space, it seems. Or used to, at least, and that probably hasn't changed.

Systemic33 13y ago

In my opinion, and for almost any other remotely similar service, it's not about paying for privacy, it's about paying for convenience. You don't go home to get a beer, when you are going out, you pay extra money for the convenience of not having to carry around beer, an instead be able to buy it on the spot, in any wanted quanitity.

outside1234 13y ago

yet another article that values our time at $0. come on, we all make something like $80-130/hr. Are you really going to spend less than 1 hour maintain this sort-of-github instance you have?

drdaeman 13y ago
He gains not only hosting value from maintaining the instance, but also the experience. And the experience is a valuable asset that you can't really buy with money. Obviously, a sort of pre-built image to spawn "own" Gitolite/Gitlab/whatever instance would be nice, so noone but those particularly interested in the process would have to spend their time setting things up. But I suspect such images/build scripts already exist, it's just that I didn't even bothered to search for them.
- addandsubtract 13y ago
  Check out turnkeyliniux.org. They offer prebuilt linux images of popular apps - including Gitlab: http://www.turnkeylinux.org/gitlab http://www.turnkeylinux.org/gitlab

programminggeek 13y ago

I pay because github is a fantastically useful tool. I am willing to pay for quality software. If I wasn't and other people like me weren't willing to pay for software, a lot of us wouldn't have jobs.

NovemberWest 13y ago

Kind of OT: I have just opened a free github account to follow a project. Any tips for a painfully pathetic n00b for learning to use github generally?

jgoldsmith 13y ago
If you understand Git well enough, then the only major difference Github adds is pull requests, which is a pretty intuitive concept once you understand Git branching. Try http://git-scm.com/ http://git-scm.com/ for a great (official) tutorial.
- NovemberWest 13y ago
  I actually know nothing about Git. But thank you for replying. Will check the link. :-)
  - axus 13y ago
    I'd saved this link of an interactive "Learn Git" training program: http://pcottle.github.io/learnGitBranching http://pcottle.github.io/learnGitBranching

freshhawk 13y ago

Off topic: People who use Mother Teresa as the canonical example of selfless altruism need to read something about Mother Teresa so they don't look so silly.

cgore 13y ago
Yeah, no kidding. Feeding and providing medical care for the Untouchables in India? She should have made an iPhone app to help find friends in restaurants nearby, that would have made he a real selfless altriust.
- gcb1 13y ago
  in her letters she said she was forbiden to provide actual health care. all they gave was a place for the sick to convalesce. also, she and most othe rreligious still advocate over population and against several sane health treatments. not to mention education. no little good religion does compensate for the long term damage.
  - cgore 13y ago
    They were given medicine, not just a place to convelesce, but even just providing a place to convalesce is a great mercy to people who were (and often still are) dying on the sides of the street, thrown away by their society as if they were nothing more than trash. But then, what do I know, I am sure that you must know vastly more than I do, seeing as to how as a Christian I must advocate against education now. I should write letters to all of the universities I have attended, asking them to please revoke my diplomas on the basis of my religious freedom.
  - lessnonymous 13y ago
    > she and most othe rreligious still advocate over population and against several sane health treatments. not to mention education What you talkin' 'bout Willis?
- icebraining 13y ago
  http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_wor... http://m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/Mother-Teresa-saint-of-the-media-controversial-study-says/articleshow/18760028.cms http://m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/Mother-Teresa-saint-of-th...

xentronium 13y ago

If you don't use or like github features, you don't really need to pay for it. Sounds like common wisdom. OP listed points which do not define github. If you want unlimited private repos "in the cloud", just use bitbucket. Github provides excellent interface and workflow patterns for code collaboration. I don't know, maybe for some it's reasonable to swap patches via mail, but for me hassle of downloading attachments from gmail into the right folder is just not worth it. Also, laugh all you want, but rendered README.md and having all code at glance are life-savers. It's so much easier to get a hold of what another open source library does, if it has nicely formatted README with examples. Bonus points for gh-pages hosted docs.

gcb1 13y ago

summary: paying a vps is cheaper and gives you more than git hub. in my experience, pros: - full control (he is not using this as he and all other probably commit as user git) - commit hooks contra: - you take the time to setup, debug, maintain. (track all those pesky security updates) - you have to backup. - people already have their keys setup at github. also, about the paying for privacy... i have two github accounts. one with my real name another with a pseudonym. and to conclude, after some time, i just moved all my code to bitbucket. initially because i rather mercurial and they have both. but then because you get a few private repos

drdaeman 13y ago
> i have two github accounts. one with my real name another with a pseudonym. Until relatively recently (at least that was the case about an year ago) having multiple GH accounts was a TOS violation. (And I needed a pseudonymous account, so that drove me off to BitBucket.) They seem to have changed that, so you're not allowed to have more than one free account per human.

jasonlotito 13y ago

Just a reminder, if you want a private Git repo, you can always use BitBucket, which provides you free private repos. And, it's also an excellent service in it's own right.

imperialWicket 13y ago
+1 My public stuff all goes to github, and my private repos are all on BitBucket; virtually no cost to me that way and I use each service as it's promoted (imo).

javajosh 13y ago

First, I applaud the "rugged individualist" style of netizenship that the OP is advocating. Hear hear. But (and you knew that "but" was coming) github is particularly useful and not amenable to the kind of gaming that Facebook and Google have indulged in. Git is truly distributed, and if github ever tried to block or manipulate repos there are full copies all over the place. It would be very easy (and dare I say such action would come swiftly) to react to any such wayward behavior on the part of github, mainly because of the nature of git. So: definitely host your own git repo, but if you use github for collaborating on public open source projects, you really aren't running any kind of risk that github will ever hinder your access or control in anyway.

rarw 13y ago

I applaud the writer for his approach to making his own hub for his team. However, this is not a real 1-1 swap. In terms of pure functionality this may be an even exchange; his own platform might meet his needs just as well as GitHub. Yet it lacks major benefit - the community/public aspect of that environment. Duplicating that factor would take too much time an effort when you could just pay 7 bucks a month for the same thing. Sometimes, while its fun to reinvent things, it just makes more sense to use what's there.

joshontheweb 13y ago

How are you only paying $7? The lowest tier I can see is $25/month for 10 private repos.

lukehorvat 13y ago

How does using Amazon's services make you any less of a "product"?