19 ms·

SteamMachines

514 points by cheald 13y ago

simias 13y ago
Sooo, it's what everybody's expected, except we don't know anything more about it. Frustrating. Also, only 300 boxes for beta? That seems a little small. EDIT: actually the latest answer in the FAQ is interesting: "Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room?" "If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input." Something new on the input device front? Oculus Rift? Valve sure is good at hyping things.
- rjtavares 13y ago
  Good at hyping, bad at actually delivering on time... Half-life (Episode?) 3 :(
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    They haven't hyped HL3 or HL2E3, or even announced either of them. Kinda silly to blame them for not delivering something they never promised to deliver.
    - chadwickthebold 13y ago
      ... Did you finish Episode 2? Have you lost internet access for the last 6 years? Valve confirmed it waaaaay back in '07, and Gaben has been dropping little nuggets about it every few years. You really need to understand how painful this is for HL fans. It would be like if AMC decided not to produce & air the final season of Breaking Bad... or delay the final season for 6+ years.
      - gknoy 13y ago
        1998 Half-Life ... 2004 Half-Life 2 2006 Half-Life 2: Episode One 2007 Half-Life 2: Episode Two I see what you mean, now. However, not only has Valve been doing many other things in the interim, there was also about six years between the original HL and HL2. It might be a little longer to wait. However, I would also not be surprised if Valve were to wait for the SteamOS release, and then announce HL3 as a "flagship" SteamOS game. They already have dozens of such games that work, but not as many that will make people put down their COD, GTA V, etc and play with a SteamBox in their living room.
        winslow 13y ago
        I doubt/hope it won't be true "flagship" title with Steambox/steamOS exclusivity. However, maybe they'll do a bundle similar to xbox where if you buy a steambox you get HL3 included? HL3 could definitely be Valve's game that makes the steam box a major player, similar to Halo for xbox. Valve feel free to hire me.
      - chadwickthebold 13y ago
        @gknoy It's just frustrating from a personal perspective... I mean, taking 6 years off to work on hats? It feels like heckling from the sidelines, but if Valve is truly great they'll find a way to, you know, make a great game again - alongside doing all of this 'extraneous' hardware/platform stuff.
      - jamesaguilar 13y ago
        I know that episode 2 did not end the story. However, http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Future_of_the_Half-Life_series http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Future_of_the_Half-Life_seri... indicates that it did not contain any teasers. I don't remember the details of the ending since it has been a few years since I played it. But in any case, leaving the story with a loose end is not the same as announcing or hyping a game. I don't see anywhere Gabe has even indicated they are working on HL3.
        dkersten 13y ago
        I don't remember the details of the ending since it has been a few years since I played it. This is a big problem with this long dev cycles. There are a few games where I was a big fan of the previous games but when the sequels eventually came, I had lost interest because I couldn't remember the precious game's story and did not want to replay it. Of course nowadays I'd just get the rundown online or watch the ending on youtube, but unless you're a big fan, it IMHO still dampens the excitement somewhat. At least for me.
- cocoflunchy 13y ago
  The Rift is output, not input. I think they're announcing some kind of new controller.
  - TrevorJ 13y ago
    It does headtracking, so it's both.
  - simias 13y ago
    Technically you could say head movement is input but I get your point. That being said it could be a combo, like Rift + a wiimote-style thing? Mouse + keyboard break Rift immersion, pads are better but still far from perfect.
    - TheCraiggers 13y ago
      Considering the vast majority of current Big Picture games use the Xbox360 controller, and that they'll probably already worried about getting enough content working on this device, I highly doubt they will do something so different as a Rift + Wiimote and the like. My assumption is Rift will be supported, but primary controller will be something extremely 360-like. If not made by Valve than by someone that already makes 3rd party 360 controllers.
    - chc 13y ago
      The entire idea here is to have a TV-attached device along the lines of the Xbox or Playstation that plays Steam games — so you can sit on the couch with your SO and play some Trine 2 or something. An input device that you strap over your face would make the couch-and-TV integration a bit moot.
  - georgemcbay 13y ago
    The Rift is both input and output, though the input is fairly limited to head movements and generally requires supplementary input for gaming. In any case, I don't think it is what Valve is hinting at, though it is something they have made some moves to support already in the form of TF2 and limited HL2 support.
- devx 13y ago
  I'd love to see Valve have the "defacto OS/console" for Oculus Rift. Oculus Rift will enable truly "next-gen" gaming, and Valve would be very smart to ride that trend, and grow with it.
  - TylerE 13y ago
    I certainly hope not. The day I have to wear a f--king headset is the day I stop gaming.
    - redthrowaway 13y ago
      Who said anything about "have to"? They're marketing SteamOS as the "do what you want with it" system. Why would they force you to use an expensive peripheral?
      - TylerE 13y ago
        I responded to the typical Optimus Rift "future of gaming d00d" fanboyism.
        meowface 13y ago
        I don't think it'll ever become mandatory, but don't you think that VR and deeper immersion is eventually where gaming is going to go? The technology still needs a lot of time to improve, but if the kinks can get worked out and if they're less likely to make people dizzy/nauseated, I imagine VR headsets will dominate the market in the next few decades.
        TylerE 13y ago
        Frankly, no, I don't. The immersion is more than canceled out by the additional hassle, not to mention that many people (including myself) that this sort of 3D either doesn't work for or causes intense motion sickness.
        13y ago
- ThomPete 13y ago
  Its probably this: https://www.google.com/patents/US8241126 https://www.google.com/patents/US8241126
  - mladenkovacevic 13y ago
    I would love a trackball on a game controller in place of the right thumbstick. I just searched for such a controller and this study from the University I went to came up: http://www.yorku.ca/mack/FuturePlay2.html http://www.yorku.ca/mack/FuturePlay2.html Apparently gaming performance increased between 5 and 10 percent going from a traditional controller to a prototype trackball controller. In addition to that gaming performance increase, I wonder if a trackball could be put to better use in other more traditional UI situations that SteamOS has to implement (big-picture mode clover-leaf keyboard, scrolling, item selection...)
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  only 300 boxes for beta? That seems a little small. It does, but like any other prototype the beta boxes are probably a couple more times more expensive than the finished product, and they'll probably be giving them to people for free (??) which represents half a million dollars out of their pocket.
- thirdsun 13y ago
  Indeed! Apart from all the hype Valve just seems to be confirming the rumors here. I'm surprised by how little information they actually give away. No screenshots/videos of SteamOS, no specifications of the boxes. I'd really like to know more. Currently I don't see why this is better than building a mini-ITX gaming rig in a nice case and putting Ubuntu + Steam Big Picture mode on it.
  - rthomas6 13y ago
    I think if you built a mini-ITX gaming rig in a nice case and put Steam OS on it, you will have built a Steam Machine.
Dirlewanger 13y ago
Que numerous random friend requests for the next couple days from a lot of people...
- CrazedGeek 13y ago
  It'd at least be different from the random group requests I already get...
  - Dirlewanger 13y ago
    Those are so damn annoying. In addition I'd be willing to bet that ~1% actually engage members on the group splash page. Stuff like that in Steam seems like an oversight.
TullamoreDude 13y ago
Now they need a pusher, to get SteamMachines and SteamOs on the market. Half Life 3 confirmed?
- acron0 13y ago
  With Rift support?
- touristtam 13y ago
  http://store.stearnpowered.com/app/246720/ http://store.stearnpowered.com/app/246720/ just in case: kk it is still funny :p
  - AimHere 13y ago
    Heh, there's still time, you never know! Perhaps Friday's announcement is a cold HL3 product launch.
- TheCraiggers 13y ago
  >Half Life 3 confirmed? If you take the time of the announcement (in seconds elapsed since midnight, March 14th 1993), divided by the amount of letters in the FAQ, and then find the square root of the resulting number, you get 3! Seriously though, are you suggesting that HL3 will only be released (even for a short while) the SteamOS? I agree it's possible, but I think that would piss all kinds of people off due to it obviously being a marketing ploy. I would imagine a more likely option for them are discounts for various games on the platform for a few weeks.
  - stonemetal 13y ago
    but I think that would piss all kinds of people off due to it obviously being a marketing ploy. You mean like HL2 and the original steam release?
    - girvo 13y ago
      Everyone has short memories. I remember the uproar when that was announced... Followed by us all dealing with it and getting steam. Gosh I miss CS1.5
programminggeek 13y ago
This is almost a non-annoucement. They've basically said they were doing this for the last year. The only news is a sign up process for early steam boxes.
- jljljl 13y ago
  That seems pretty big doesn't it? Going from "we are doing this" to "we are going to release some of these to early adopters"?
  - chc 13y ago
    That seems pretty small to me, both in terms of progress and in terms of the actual size of of the release.
    - Brakenshire 13y ago
      It means they are fully committed to the programme. Up to now there was speculation that they were going to abandon it.
      - chc 13y ago
        No, it emphatically does not mean that. In fact, this announcement makes it sound even more like they are going to abandon it. As far as I can gather from this announcement, they're releasing a very small number of units for beta testing, and then they're getting out of the hardware game and letting third parties carry the torch.
4lun 13y ago
"Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room? If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input." Sounds like the next announcement is likely to be a controller then
venomsnake 13y ago
If there was ever a good case for eyebrow dismissal it is that. This is non announcement. They didn't tell anything. Except some weird beta test on unspecified hardware.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
bwilliams 13y ago
That doesn't seem like a large enough beta and it really only targets PC gamers. I would think that they would want to be trying to capture console gamer share rather than existing PC gamers.
- cheald 13y ago
  Why wouldn't they beta with existing Steam users who use their Steam accounts in the living room?
- rprospero 13y ago
  I think that they're just playing it a little safe. If Valve can't convince me to buy a steam machine, despite the large steam library which I'd be able to play on it, how are they going to convince my XBox playing cousins, who would have to buy all new games. Some of the biggest fiascos in gaming have come when company took its fans for granted while trying to expand into a new market (e.g. Ultima 8). The usual result is losing your existing base while not building a new one. Once Valve is sure that the PC gamers are on board, who should be their easiest sell, they'll start going after the console players.
- math0ne 13y ago
  Seem to me the opposite, they are targeting existing steam users, evident by the streaming option and portable library.
- ivarious 13y ago
  I think one of the point is to make existing PC gamers to buy controller for their Machine and use it, creating a big enough people with controller as a leverage when dealing with publishers and developer to include controller support in their games.
  - jdjb 13y ago
    Or more importantly, to make it easier for the console game makers to port to Steam box since the controller will be the primary input device anyway.
- 13y ago
usearegex 13y ago
"Can I download the OS to try it out? You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that)" So it will be open source...
- vinkelhake 13y ago
  Since SteamOS is Linux and they're distributing it, they have to. This doesn't mean that any of the Valve applications running on top of it will be open source. I don't expect them to be.
  - simias 13y ago
    The question is about "SteamOS" however, not the kernel. That means that the userland might be open source as well (like android). Actually it's a must if they want people to actually port their OS to a wide range of hardware. That being said Steam (the app) will obviously remain closed source.
    - Touche 13y ago
      What userland is there? It runs startx and launches Steam Big Picture, right?
      - AimHere 13y ago
        And right there you're going to need a sizeable chunk of X windows, and a C library, and network configuration utilities, hardware management tools (looks like this is aimed at commodity hardware + reference machines from Valve) and the guts of a web browser and Steam itself. I wouldn't be totally surprised to find coreutils or at least busybox in the default install too, for aiding and abetting system initialising (and to please the intrepid few who somehow make their way to a command line).
        Touche 13y ago
        Sure, not contending there is userland, just wondering if there is any interesting userland that Valve develops. They won't be open sourcing steam, so the fact that they release their build of X windows that is exactly the same as upstream isn't very interesting.
cptno 13y ago
The two real revelations here are: >Can I download the OS to try it out? >>You will be able to download it (including the source code,[...]) but not yet. and >Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room? >>If you want. [...] Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input.
- nemo1618 13y ago
  yep, the fact that they're making the source code available is a big deal. A lot of people were worried that SteamOS would just be another closed platform, and this puts that fear to rest pretty definitively.
  - swalsh 13y ago
    They've positioned themselves so that none of their IP even matters as far as their core business goes. What does matter is that they own the marketplace for games. Giving the source code away only allows people to improve the platform, which only strengthens their hold on the market place.
    - spyder 13y ago
      Not if somebody modifying it to use with his own marketplace, which is unlikely but possible with the open source software.
      - swalsh 13y ago
        I'm not sure if they're open sourcing the actual code for steam... it sounded like just the OS. None the less, code doesn't make market places. It takes effort, good faith, proper marketing etc.
      - awj 13y ago
        > Not if somebody modifying it to use with his own marketplace, which is unlikely but possible with the open source software. People have been doing that on PCs for ages. So far Valve seems to be doing well with "well, then, we'll just outcompete" as a solution to that issue.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Pxtl 13y ago
> Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room? > If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input. This excites me. Valve's bread-and-butter, as a gamedev company and not a game reseller, uses a pointing device. FPS games and Dota are both genres that do far better with a mouse. Obviously, supporting gamepads will get the vast ocean of console-like games into the living room just fine. But for games originally designed for a mouse, a gamepad is a pretty sub-par experience. Do they have some new control device planned? Please? Pretty-please?
- Recoil42 13y ago
  >FPS games and Dota are both genres that do far better with a mouse. Toupée fallacy. I'd argue that games built for a gamepad -- Halo and Gears of War come to mind -- feel much better on a gamepad than they do on a keyboard and mouse.
  - 14113 13y ago
    I've never been able to play halo on a console, it feels far too inaccurate to me, now that I'm used to playing with a mouse.
    - CrazedGeek 13y ago
      And I've never been able to play Super Mario Bros. with a keyboard. It goes both ways.
      - __david__ 13y ago
        Wait, that doesn't make sense. Super Mario Bros. uses digital inputs, not an analog stick, so it's essentially the same as a keyboard...Are you saying keys are somehow different than controller buttons?
        CrazedGeek 13y ago
breckinloggins 13y ago
I'm excited about where Valve is going with this, of course, but to be honest I'm concerned about controllers the most. Buying a good controller for a PC is not hard, but it's not simple either. Picture yourself as a "living room console guy" getting into PC gaming. You'd like to use a controller for a certain game. Consider: - You can use your XBox360, PS3 controller, or WiiMote, but that's not obvious. You'll need to do some research to figure out that you CAN do it as well as HOW to do it. Again, the steps aren't particularly complicated (especially for the XBox wired controller), but remember who we're targeting, here. If you don't know much about this stuff, you might be worried you'll break something or won't be able to hook your controller back to your console. - If this doesn't occur to you or you'd rather not use your console controllers, you might be tempted to buy one of those gaming controllers you see at Radio Shack, Best Buy, or somewhere online. Chances are high that the controller you bought will be quite shitty in comparison to your console controllers. You'll notice everything from drifting inputs to cheap buttons to just plain uncomfortable hand feel. You'll convince yourself that you just picked wrongly, so you do some more research. You eventually come upon something pretty good, but it's expensive and it's STILL not your XBox 360 controller. - If you get past all this (whether that's finding a good 3rd party controller or reusing your console controller), you're still not QUITE sure how each new PC game will react with a controller. Sure, maybe the mappings make sense, but you worry that you'll come upon something that requires an action the developers forgot to map to a controller button. Or maybe it'll just feel wrong because the controls for your particular game were clearly designed to work best for the physical characteristics of a mouse and keyboard. You know with enough tweaking this won't be a problem, but it still bothers you that you have to tweak anything in the first place. Nothing I've outlined above is a problem for advanced gamers, but if something like a Steam Machine is ever going to take over the living room, it has to be a natural plug n' play experience with respect to input devices. And I mean natural for your mom or uncle, not for you. Luckily it sounds like Valve will be addressing this head-on; I am more excited about what they have to say about this than about what the specs of any particular Steam Machine might be or what the beta might look like.
- simias 13y ago
  That might have been true in the past (I remember having some trouble with a SideWinder controller on a dedicated control port in the 90's) but these days the 360 wired USB controllers are as plug'n'play as it gets (on windows at least). It Just Works. PS3 controllers are a pity though, you need those shady ad-ridden closed source third party drivers.
piinbinary 13y ago
> The rest will work seamlessly via in-home streaming Does that mean streaming from another computer (presumably running Windows) in your house?
- girvo 13y ago
  Yes :)
Touche 13y ago
Lessons learned: 1) Hardware is hard. 2) Apparently deadlines are important above all else, even if you have nothing to announce/release.
Fuzzwah 13y ago
So the only thing I learned from this is that its not a SteamBox, it is a SteamMachine.
- evanmoran 13y ago
  This naming saddened me, maybe in part from remembering the awesomeness that was OrangeBox. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box
djhworld 13y ago
From the sounds of it they're producing multiple different machines. I can imagine it being like this 1) Top of the range high spec machine running SteamOS (£500-£600) 2) Medium spec machine running SteamOS (£250-£400) 3) Basic machine running SteamOS that's designed for people who just want to stream games from their Desktop PC into their living room (£60-£120)
wcchandler 13y ago
It'll be interesting to hear if AMD's announcement today has anything to do with this. http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-eventDetails&EventId=5024687 http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-eventDetails&...
ivarious 13y ago
I want to praise the name choice. "Machine" is very catchy.
- cheald 13y ago
  I was really pulling for "GabeCube".
- mladenkovacevic 13y ago
  SteamEngine would've been rather cool too... unless there is something already called the Steam Engine... or if it didn't confuse the connotation too much with other software types of "engines"
  - winslow 13y ago
    A few theories are Valve has been working on their Source 2 engine and will release it as a competitor to Unity naming it SteamEngine. Supporting win/mac/linux/steamOS etc. Also SteamMachine might be more unique and thus easier to search for.
julius 13y ago
They want SteamOS to restructure the console market like Android did with the mobile market. They give PC makers a great new customizable way to enter the livingroom-computer market. With their gaming shop built in. This is great for gamers. In a few years any SteamMachine for 300$ will easily outperform PS4/XBone. And have way way more games. And all AAA games (all PC releases).
- Anonymous9823 13y ago
  The hardware manufacturers will love having a chance to compete with consoles in the living room. It opens up an entirely new revenue stream for them. They'll be marketing this new hardware, and helping to push it into homes. For example, DELL running a marketing campaign, 'Faster than a Playstation 4, more games than an Xbox One, and half the price. Check out the new 2016 Dell Steam Machines.'
- chadwickthebold 13y ago
  'In a few years any SteamMachine for 300$ will easily outperform PS4/XBone.' Uhh, do you have any support for this claim?
  - jpadkins 13y ago
    moore's law? Or more specifically, look at charts of cpu/$, gpu/$ memory/$ and flash/$ over time. They all go down over time.
    - chadwickthebold 13y ago
      I'm pretty sure there's the same distinction today, where a ~$500 console is more graphically powerful than a ~$500 general-purpose computer. I don't think that you're going to see that price point move very much 'in a few years'. The better case for the SteamMachine is in whatever streaming capabilities it will have. I venture to say that most people who care about bleeding-edge graphics probably have their own custom boxes already, and if Valve can port that over to the living room they'll really have hit a home run.
mikevm 13y ago
I'm rather skeptical about their in-home streaming option. In a world where games are buying LCDs to minimize input lag, what kind of a performance are they expecting from streaming a game over LAN? I'm interested in knowing how this streaming is going to work. Is this similar to VNC?
- Kiro 13y ago
  I don't think that applies to the majority of gamers. In fact, I bet most gamers don't even know what input lag is.
- millstone 13y ago
  I'm more concerned with the prospect of needing to buy both a PC and a Steambox to play games.
  - yaeger 13y ago
    >needing to buy That's a non issue. Valve would be stupid to start making Linux only games. The SteamMachine is for people who would want to play pc games in their living room but who don't have a PC anywhere close to connect it to the tv. So now, they can get the Steam Machine. But since Linux based games on Steam are still a minority, people might say they don't want that "console" if it doesn't have much games so Valve set it up that you can stream every windows based game from your pc that can be anywhere in your home via lan to your SteamMachine.
devindotcom 13y ago
Why on earth have they not called the hardware "Steam Engine" instead of these strange other names?
- meritt 13y ago
  Maybe they are saving that for their Unity3D competitor :)
  - brymaster 13y ago
    I really like this theory. Seems to me that if Friday's announcement isn't a game reveal, it'll instead be Source Engine 2 and a possible Unity competitor. This would make a lot of sense if Valve is serious about getting developers on board for their SteamMachine/Linux/cross-platform strategy. Valve has already announced the OS and hardware, dev tools could be next.
- wvenable 13y ago
  Strange names are much easier to search for.
  - devindotcom 13y ago
    Their company is called "Valve" ;)
    - meowface 13y ago
      And they have software named Steam and a game named Half-Life. The top Google hits for all of those things (depending on how Google rates what kind of consumer you are) are not Valve's products. They seem to do fine, though.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  They really like "Steam Machine" off Human After All, and they're looking forward to using it in a marketing campaign?
dombili 13y ago
So, according to the last answer, the 3rd announcement will probably be about a gamepad or an input device of sorts. That's a bummer. I know it was very unlikely, but HL3 announcement would have made me so happy. I'm still hopeful though, since it's been confirmed that Source 2 is in the works. Valve usually shows off their new engine with a new HL game.
- jakebellacera 13y ago
  While HL3 would be an awesome announcement, it doesn't seem highly relevant to SteamOS. I'm sure if anything, they'll release HL3 as a Steam-exclusive game as a launch title.
snotrockets 13y ago
Look at the beta eligibility list: they require the would be participants to get a leg in the steam community facilities, and try playing in living room mode. That would give a huge crowd an incentive to try Steam the way Valve is hoping it'd be used in the future. So they give 300 boxes, but get thousands of people trying their console-like services. Evil geniuses, those Valvers are.
- evanmoran 13y ago
  Valve does love achievement unlocks!
- this_user 13y ago
  It's not only that, but look at all the steps they have taken in the last 12 months: 1) Convince Nvidia and AMD to improve their Linux graphic drivers - probably by promising them additional revenue from Steambox sales - to lay the groundwork 2) Port Steam to Linux, start porting their own games 3) Build a Steam-based Linux distribution and make it available to everyone 4) Find partners that build custom hardware to run SteamOS IMO Valve is trying to achieve two goals with this. The first goal seems to be to hedge their bets OS-wise. Gabe Newell was quite explicit in his criticism of the road MS has taken with Windows 8. Valve may very well view this as an existential threat to their business model if MS for instance takes the Apple route of promoting app store downloads over the old way of installing software. Thus, it makes sense to work towards an alternative platform that is not entirely controlled by one company. The second goal would be to introduce a new competitor in the console market by leveraging the existing Steam ecosystem and game catalogue. The beauty of this strategy is that each step adds value on its own even if the ultimate goal of establishing Steamboxes should fail
incision 13y ago
Marketing in the guise of a beta/prototype program. Google seems to have been pretty successful doing with Glass and I'm sure there were prior examples. In any case, I'm pretty much guaranteed to buy the finished product. What little gaming I've done for the past 4 years or so has been almost exclusively via Steam.
arianvanp 13y ago
This cought my eye: > Can I download the OS to try it out? You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that) but not yet. Wondering if that'd include their entire product in source code? probably not, aye?
- cheald 13y ago
  Almost assuredly not, since their DRM is a big part of their platform. They may include pieces of it, though.
  - jmcqk6 13y ago
    Isn't most of their DRM encryption based? I mean, it's not all that restrictive, and it's quite possible that simply seeing the code for the DRM would not be enough to circumvent it. I think other companies would have a problem, but I don't think valve is probably one of of them. I could be wrong though.
    - cheald 13y ago
      Preorder delivery is encrypted, yeah. However, they also have bits in Steam-delivered games that can check for a valid Steam session, terminate the game session if the Steam session is lost, and the like. I don't think they'll be shipping some of those components because they wouldn't want to enable people building custom Steam installs that just stub out the DRM features.
  - thefreeman 13y ago
    While I agree that they will definitely not be releasing source for Steam, I doubt its for DRM reasons. As far as I can tell steamapi.DLL DRM is pretty thoroughly owned.
- Mahn 13y ago
  Well it's built on top of Linux so it would only make sense. Plus they seem eager to get people to hack it, so why not? Can't hurt their business either way, they still own Steam as a store.
oddshocks 13y ago
GG Windows
CraigJPerry 13y ago
>> Make 10 Steam friends (if you haven't already) Are there any HN groups on Steam? If I try to create a group named Hacker News, it's already in use. If I try to find it, no results found :-)
- ward 13y ago
  I don't know about any HN groups or what not, but reddit has http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamFriend http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamFriend if you're in need of more people.
- Aloisius 13y ago
  Just hop on here [1] and jump to the end of the thread. View profile of 10 people & add them. Should take only a minute. [1] http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0/864980009908627949/ http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0...
Florin_Andrei 13y ago
As a parent, if these things don't come with time-based parental controls, that would reduce their appeal A LOT. Windows, for all its warts, is great this way. The Windows-based PC in the living room, running Steam, has time-based parental controls configured at the OS level. This works great for everyone involved, reduces effort and contention. Also, kids do really well on fixed timetables. I've opened a discussion thread in the Steam Universe forum, on this very topic. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0/864980009916913495/ http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0...
- InTheSwiss 13y ago
  Seriously? When I was a kind my NES and SNES didn't need built in time controls and I am just fine. I am a parent (11 year old girl and 7 month old son) and I restrict her (son is a little too young!) time playing games in the same way my parents did by making sure I do my chores and homework first. I don't rely on OS level parental controls and I find it kind of sad people need to. I spend a lot of time playing Animal Crossing with my daughter for example and she knows when she can and can't play it. I guess I just find it kind of depressing that we have all these kind of digital restrictions in place for kids these days. Part of the reason I am successful in what I do [professionally] is that I didn't have such restrictions as a child and I hope my daughter in the same. At the end of the day playing Mario Kart or Viva Piñata isn't going to ruin her life.
  - lelandbatey 13y ago
    I'm ambivalent on the topic. Sure you can instill the values of proper time management into your kid and hope they abide by them when you're not around. However, I don't feel it's unreasonable to have an automated solution for this kind of thing. Just like I'd love to have automated lighting in my home, or automated curtains, or a computer that will automatically turn on at certain times, sometimes it's also nice to have a things that automatically turn off after a while as well.
    - InTheSwiss 13y ago
Steko 13y ago
2014 Oculus Rift expected to ship widely demoed and lauded next generation experience. Nov 2013 Sony and MS start shipping new consoles. Oct 2013 Apple likely to announce and immediately ship $129=$199 A7X based console killer. Sep 2013 Valve announces beta opt in for SteamMachine with zero details on product.
- cheald 13y ago
  > Oct 2013 Apple likely to announce $149 A7X based console killer. Maybe I'm just missing something here, but I'm pretty sure an ARM-based system has exactly zero chance of displacing current gaming platforms. They could whip up a sexy Ouya competitor, sure, but Ouya isn't exactly setting the gaming world on fire. An ARM console would be a competitor to phone/tablet gaming, not to console gaming.
  - commandar 13y ago
    Sony might have a chance of it with the Vita TV, but that has as much to do with PS4 streaming as its native games.
  - Steko 13y ago
    The Ouya GPU pushes 12 GFLOPs (gamecube, original xbox quality). The GPUs in the 5S give 76 GFLOPs and are underclocked at 300 Mhz for battery reasons. A hypothetical A7X which, following the A6X, has twice as many GPUs as the A7, would put us at 150 GFLOPs. Keep in mind the A6X is still on a mobile device. Up the clock speed to 500 Mhz and we've arrived at 250 GFLOPs. This is comparable to the PS3 (230) and 360 (260) and the assumptions seem pretty reasonable. GFLOPs aren't the whole story but it's important to understand what class of machine Apple could ship now. It's certainly console quality. Specwise it won't hold a candle to the PS4 (1.8 TFLOPs), at least in 2013/14. But as we learned last generation the new stud consoles often trail not only underpowered upstarts (Wii) but sometimes their own previous generation consoles due to supply or price issues. https://www.google.com/search?q=ps2+outsells+ps3&safe=active https://www.google.com/search?q=ps2+outsells+ps3&safe=active And in terms of price Apple could ship the system we're talking about with a decent amount of RAM and a controller for $149. Of course they won't even market it primarily as a gaming device so it would probably ship without a (gaming) controller for $129+.
dkhenry 13y ago
Now I just need 10 friends http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197975331116 http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197975331116
sodafountan 13y ago
what MS-Dos was to PCs in the 80's or what Android was to Smartphones more recently is exactly what Steam OS will be to home consoles in the present. I have faith that Valve will dominate the next generation of interactive entertainment, if of course they don't mess anything up.
Tichy 13y ago
Great picture, those machines remind me of the turrets from portal 2
msie 13y ago
I wish they would follow Apple's lead and tightly control the hardware. It would make it easier for devs to test and consumers to make a choice. Apple's wildly successful with their iPhone business model. Please try to avoid the fragmentation issues with Android. Windows already owns the home PC market, why go after it?
- msie 13y ago
  To add further: there is only one XBOne hw configuration, there is only one PS4 hw configuration, there is only one WiiU hw configuration. Does Valve think it knows better?
  - cheald 13y ago
    There are $BIGNUM PC configurations, which Valve currently provides games and gaming platform services for. I'm gonna say "Yes, they do know better".
- M2Ys4U 13y ago
  > It would make it easier for devs to test and consumers to make a choice. A choice of one is no choice at all >Apple's wildly successful with their iPhone business model. Have you seen the mobile market share? Android is king.
  - msie 13y ago
    Yes, I will admit that. Android is king with lots of devices running old versions. Google is trying to wrestle control of OS updates away from the HW manufacturers and Valve has to try to avoid that. Also the choice is SteamBox vs XBOne, PS4, WiiU. Better to have one device to focus all marketing and development efforts on than try the Windows Everywhere tactic.
- qu4z-2 13y ago
  > It would make it easier for [...] consumers to make a choice. Because no choice is as easy as no choice?
shurcooL 13y ago
I am most curious about "Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input."
ludoo 13y ago
Bah, I thought the link was about real steam machines, who cares about a game platform...
glazskunrukitis 13y ago
At first I thought this will have to do something with steam powered machines[1] [1] http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/steam_washington_forweb.jpg http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/steam_washingto...
nej 13y ago
I'm very excited about this. Go Valve!
shadowmint 13y ago
I'm a tiny bit concerned. Can I download the OS to try it out? You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that) but not yet. Open source os. Hardware partners for devices. Sound familiar? >_> android. So, when I buy a samsung steambox it's going to come with its own BallsWiz UI customization as they try to differentiate isnt it?
- candydance 13y ago
  Similarly it means that a group of consumers could work together and create a great build to use (eg Cyanogen Mod). As long as we can install our own OS it'll be fine.
z3phyr 13y ago
Android chose Java as its programming language of choice. What kind of APIs and programming language will SteamBox use? What is the probability that it will be C++ (C++11)?
bastards 13y ago
I am not trying to be a downer, but I think this is going to be a huge flop. Gaming appliances need to be focused at the gaming market, which Sony and MS own like the U.S. and USSR in the mid to late 20th century. Nintendo messed up with the Wii U and probably won't recover, and everything else is secondary, for now. I even think Apple's move into the TV gaming market will be mostly a bust, but I could be wrong, because the casual game market is strong. I've personally not bought a single game from Steam. I know they are big, but I just don't have time for it. I'm not the target market though.
- tsahyt 13y ago
  I haven't bought a Steam game either. In fact, I don't even have an account. For the past couple of years I've been locked into the MS ecosystem with the Xbox 360. I will not buy the Xbox One though. I don't need a surveillance machine in my living room. I was never a fan of the PlayStation. For a while it looked like I had to build a PC and have it run the system I dislike the most, just for the sake of gaming. Seriously, I'd buy (or build) a SteamMachine in a heartbeat. It's the most sensible option for me at this time.
acd 13y ago
This means we can finally ditch Windows for Linux. It also means it will be really important for video graphics cards makers to have fast Linux drivers.
pearjuice 13y ago
Right now when it comes to computers, there is an implicit monopoly. There is only 1 company on the planet that supplies both their own hardware and an operating system of their own bundled with it. This company is Apple. Because they supply both hardware and software, they can sell a "complete experience" to customers who, quite frankly, will lap up anything they hear about computers and their 'black magic'. But Valve are about to change this. The so called Steambox announced a day or so ago is now going to be in direct competition with Apple's own devices as Valve can now offer this "complete experience" package too. If you want to know why this is so important you only need to realise that the term "Mac" for most people refers not only to the computer itself, but to the operating system also. No other company has anything that comes close to this, but soon Valve will, and the more time passes and the more people get accustomed to the range of available Steamboxes, the most ground Valve will gain, and the more Apple will lose.

514 points by cheald 13y ago

Sooo, it's what everybody's expected, except we don't know anything more about it. Frustrating. Also, only 300 boxes for beta? That seems a little small. EDIT: actually the latest answer in the FAQ is interesting: "Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room?" "If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input." Something new on the input device front? Oculus Rift? Valve sure is good at hyping things.

rjtavares 13y ago
Good at hyping, bad at actually delivering on time... Half-life (Episode?) 3 :(
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  They haven't hyped HL3 or HL2E3, or even announced either of them. Kinda silly to blame them for not delivering something they never promised to deliver.
  - chadwickthebold 13y ago
    ... Did you finish Episode 2? Have you lost internet access for the last 6 years? Valve confirmed it waaaaay back in '07, and Gaben has been dropping little nuggets about it every few years. You really need to understand how painful this is for HL fans. It would be like if AMC decided not to produce & air the final season of Breaking Bad... or delay the final season for 6+ years.
    - gknoy 13y ago
      1998 Half-Life ... 2004 Half-Life 2 2006 Half-Life 2: Episode One 2007 Half-Life 2: Episode Two I see what you mean, now. However, not only has Valve been doing many other things in the interim, there was also about six years between the original HL and HL2. It might be a little longer to wait. However, I would also not be surprised if Valve were to wait for the SteamOS release, and then announce HL3 as a "flagship" SteamOS game. They already have dozens of such games that work, but not as many that will make people put down their COD, GTA V, etc and play with a SteamBox in their living room.
      - winslow 13y ago
        I doubt/hope it won't be true "flagship" title with Steambox/steamOS exclusivity. However, maybe they'll do a bundle similar to xbox where if you buy a steambox you get HL3 included? HL3 could definitely be Valve's game that makes the steam box a major player, similar to Halo for xbox. Valve feel free to hire me.
    - chadwickthebold 13y ago
      @gknoy It's just frustrating from a personal perspective... I mean, taking 6 years off to work on hats? It feels like heckling from the sidelines, but if Valve is truly great they'll find a way to, you know, make a great game again - alongside doing all of this 'extraneous' hardware/platform stuff.
    - jamesaguilar 13y ago
      I know that episode 2 did not end the story. However, http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Future_of_the_Half-Life_series http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Future_of_the_Half-Life_seri... indicates that it did not contain any teasers. I don't remember the details of the ending since it has been a few years since I played it. But in any case, leaving the story with a loose end is not the same as announcing or hyping a game. I don't see anywhere Gabe has even indicated they are working on HL3.
      - dkersten 13y ago
        I don't remember the details of the ending since it has been a few years since I played it. This is a big problem with this long dev cycles. There are a few games where I was a big fan of the previous games but when the sequels eventually came, I had lost interest because I couldn't remember the precious game's story and did not want to replay it. Of course nowadays I'd just get the rundown online or watch the ending on youtube, but unless you're a big fan, it IMHO still dampens the excitement somewhat. At least for me.
cocoflunchy 13y ago
The Rift is output, not input. I think they're announcing some kind of new controller.
- TrevorJ 13y ago
  It does headtracking, so it's both.
- simias 13y ago
  Technically you could say head movement is input but I get your point. That being said it could be a combo, like Rift + a wiimote-style thing? Mouse + keyboard break Rift immersion, pads are better but still far from perfect.
  - TheCraiggers 13y ago
    Considering the vast majority of current Big Picture games use the Xbox360 controller, and that they'll probably already worried about getting enough content working on this device, I highly doubt they will do something so different as a Rift + Wiimote and the like. My assumption is Rift will be supported, but primary controller will be something extremely 360-like. If not made by Valve than by someone that already makes 3rd party 360 controllers.
  - chc 13y ago
    The entire idea here is to have a TV-attached device along the lines of the Xbox or Playstation that plays Steam games — so you can sit on the couch with your SO and play some Trine 2 or something. An input device that you strap over your face would make the couch-and-TV integration a bit moot.
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  The Rift is both input and output, though the input is fairly limited to head movements and generally requires supplementary input for gaming. In any case, I don't think it is what Valve is hinting at, though it is something they have made some moves to support already in the form of TF2 and limited HL2 support.
devx 13y ago
I'd love to see Valve have the "defacto OS/console" for Oculus Rift. Oculus Rift will enable truly "next-gen" gaming, and Valve would be very smart to ride that trend, and grow with it.
- TylerE 13y ago
  I certainly hope not. The day I have to wear a f--king headset is the day I stop gaming.
  - redthrowaway 13y ago
    Who said anything about "have to"? They're marketing SteamOS as the "do what you want with it" system. Why would they force you to use an expensive peripheral?
    - TylerE 13y ago
      I responded to the typical Optimus Rift "future of gaming d00d" fanboyism.
      - meowface 13y ago
        I don't think it'll ever become mandatory, but don't you think that VR and deeper immersion is eventually where gaming is going to go? The technology still needs a lot of time to improve, but if the kinks can get worked out and if they're less likely to make people dizzy/nauseated, I imagine VR headsets will dominate the market in the next few decades.
        TylerE 13y ago
        Frankly, no, I don't. The immersion is more than canceled out by the additional hassle, not to mention that many people (including myself) that this sort of 3D either doesn't work for or causes intense motion sickness.
        13y ago
ThomPete 13y ago
Its probably this: https://www.google.com/patents/US8241126 https://www.google.com/patents/US8241126
- mladenkovacevic 13y ago
  I would love a trackball on a game controller in place of the right thumbstick. I just searched for such a controller and this study from the University I went to came up: http://www.yorku.ca/mack/FuturePlay2.html http://www.yorku.ca/mack/FuturePlay2.html Apparently gaming performance increased between 5 and 10 percent going from a traditional controller to a prototype trackball controller. In addition to that gaming performance increase, I wonder if a trackball could be put to better use in other more traditional UI situations that SteamOS has to implement (big-picture mode clover-leaf keyboard, scrolling, item selection...)
sliverstorm 13y ago
only 300 boxes for beta? That seems a little small. It does, but like any other prototype the beta boxes are probably a couple more times more expensive than the finished product, and they'll probably be giving them to people for free (??) which represents half a million dollars out of their pocket.
thirdsun 13y ago
Indeed! Apart from all the hype Valve just seems to be confirming the rumors here. I'm surprised by how little information they actually give away. No screenshots/videos of SteamOS, no specifications of the boxes. I'd really like to know more. Currently I don't see why this is better than building a mini-ITX gaming rig in a nice case and putting Ubuntu + Steam Big Picture mode on it.
- rthomas6 13y ago
  I think if you built a mini-ITX gaming rig in a nice case and put Steam OS on it, you will have built a Steam Machine.

Dirlewanger 13y ago

Que numerous random friend requests for the next couple days from a lot of people...

CrazedGeek 13y ago
It'd at least be different from the random group requests I already get...
- Dirlewanger 13y ago
  Those are so damn annoying. In addition I'd be willing to bet that ~1% actually engage members on the group splash page. Stuff like that in Steam seems like an oversight.

TullamoreDude 13y ago

Now they need a pusher, to get SteamMachines and SteamOs on the market. Half Life 3 confirmed?

acron0 13y ago
With Rift support?
touristtam 13y ago
http://store.stearnpowered.com/app/246720/ http://store.stearnpowered.com/app/246720/ just in case: kk it is still funny :p
- AimHere 13y ago
  Heh, there's still time, you never know! Perhaps Friday's announcement is a cold HL3 product launch.
TheCraiggers 13y ago
>Half Life 3 confirmed? If you take the time of the announcement (in seconds elapsed since midnight, March 14th 1993), divided by the amount of letters in the FAQ, and then find the square root of the resulting number, you get 3! Seriously though, are you suggesting that HL3 will only be released (even for a short while) the SteamOS? I agree it's possible, but I think that would piss all kinds of people off due to it obviously being a marketing ploy. I would imagine a more likely option for them are discounts for various games on the platform for a few weeks.
- stonemetal 13y ago
  but I think that would piss all kinds of people off due to it obviously being a marketing ploy. You mean like HL2 and the original steam release?
  - girvo 13y ago
    Everyone has short memories. I remember the uproar when that was announced... Followed by us all dealing with it and getting steam. Gosh I miss CS1.5

programminggeek 13y ago

This is almost a non-annoucement. They've basically said they were doing this for the last year. The only news is a sign up process for early steam boxes.

jljljl 13y ago
That seems pretty big doesn't it? Going from "we are doing this" to "we are going to release some of these to early adopters"?
- chc 13y ago
  That seems pretty small to me, both in terms of progress and in terms of the actual size of of the release.
  - Brakenshire 13y ago
    It means they are fully committed to the programme. Up to now there was speculation that they were going to abandon it.
    - chc 13y ago
      No, it emphatically does not mean that. In fact, this announcement makes it sound even more like they are going to abandon it. As far as I can gather from this announcement, they're releasing a very small number of units for beta testing, and then they're getting out of the hardware game and letting third parties carry the torch.

4lun 13y ago

"Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room? If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input." Sounds like the next announcement is likely to be a controller then

venomsnake 13y ago

If there was ever a good case for eyebrow dismissal it is that. This is non announcement. They didn't tell anything. Except some weird beta test on unspecified hardware.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

bwilliams 13y ago

That doesn't seem like a large enough beta and it really only targets PC gamers. I would think that they would want to be trying to capture console gamer share rather than existing PC gamers.

cheald 13y ago
Why wouldn't they beta with existing Steam users who use their Steam accounts in the living room?
rprospero 13y ago
I think that they're just playing it a little safe. If Valve can't convince me to buy a steam machine, despite the large steam library which I'd be able to play on it, how are they going to convince my XBox playing cousins, who would have to buy all new games. Some of the biggest fiascos in gaming have come when company took its fans for granted while trying to expand into a new market (e.g. Ultima 8). The usual result is losing your existing base while not building a new one. Once Valve is sure that the PC gamers are on board, who should be their easiest sell, they'll start going after the console players.
math0ne 13y ago
Seem to me the opposite, they are targeting existing steam users, evident by the streaming option and portable library.
ivarious 13y ago
I think one of the point is to make existing PC gamers to buy controller for their Machine and use it, creating a big enough people with controller as a leverage when dealing with publishers and developer to include controller support in their games.
- jdjb 13y ago
  Or more importantly, to make it easier for the console game makers to port to Steam box since the controller will be the primary input device anyway.
13y ago

usearegex 13y ago

"Can I download the OS to try it out? You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that)" So it will be open source...

vinkelhake 13y ago
Since SteamOS is Linux and they're distributing it, they have to. This doesn't mean that any of the Valve applications running on top of it will be open source. I don't expect them to be.
- simias 13y ago
  The question is about "SteamOS" however, not the kernel. That means that the userland might be open source as well (like android). Actually it's a must if they want people to actually port their OS to a wide range of hardware. That being said Steam (the app) will obviously remain closed source.
  - Touche 13y ago
    What userland is there? It runs startx and launches Steam Big Picture, right?
    - AimHere 13y ago
      And right there you're going to need a sizeable chunk of X windows, and a C library, and network configuration utilities, hardware management tools (looks like this is aimed at commodity hardware + reference machines from Valve) and the guts of a web browser and Steam itself. I wouldn't be totally surprised to find coreutils or at least busybox in the default install too, for aiding and abetting system initialising (and to please the intrepid few who somehow make their way to a command line).
      - Touche 13y ago
        Sure, not contending there is userland, just wondering if there is any interesting userland that Valve develops. They won't be open sourcing steam, so the fact that they release their build of X windows that is exactly the same as upstream isn't very interesting.

cptno 13y ago

The two real revelations here are: >Can I download the OS to try it out? >>You will be able to download it (including the source code,[...]) but not yet. and >Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room? >>If you want. [...] Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input.

nemo1618 13y ago
yep, the fact that they're making the source code available is a big deal. A lot of people were worried that SteamOS would just be another closed platform, and this puts that fear to rest pretty definitively.
- swalsh 13y ago
  They've positioned themselves so that none of their IP even matters as far as their core business goes. What does matter is that they own the marketplace for games. Giving the source code away only allows people to improve the platform, which only strengthens their hold on the market place.
  - spyder 13y ago
    Not if somebody modifying it to use with his own marketplace, which is unlikely but possible with the open source software.
    - swalsh 13y ago
      I'm not sure if they're open sourcing the actual code for steam... it sounded like just the OS. None the less, code doesn't make market places. It takes effort, good faith, proper marketing etc.
    - awj 13y ago
      > Not if somebody modifying it to use with his own marketplace, which is unlikely but possible with the open source software. People have been doing that on PCs for ages. So far Valve seems to be doing well with "well, then, we'll just outcompete" as a solution to that issue.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Pxtl 13y ago

> Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room? > If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input. This excites me. Valve's bread-and-butter, as a gamedev company and not a game reseller, uses a pointing device. FPS games and Dota are both genres that do far better with a mouse. Obviously, supporting gamepads will get the vast ocean of console-like games into the living room just fine. But for games originally designed for a mouse, a gamepad is a pretty sub-par experience. Do they have some new control device planned? Please? Pretty-please?

Recoil42 13y ago
>FPS games and Dota are both genres that do far better with a mouse. Toupée fallacy. I'd argue that games built for a gamepad -- Halo and Gears of War come to mind -- feel much better on a gamepad than they do on a keyboard and mouse.
- 14113 13y ago
  I've never been able to play halo on a console, it feels far too inaccurate to me, now that I'm used to playing with a mouse.
  - CrazedGeek 13y ago
    And I've never been able to play Super Mario Bros. with a keyboard. It goes both ways.
    - __david__ 13y ago
      Wait, that doesn't make sense. Super Mario Bros. uses digital inputs, not an analog stick, so it's essentially the same as a keyboard...Are you saying keys are somehow different than controller buttons?
      - CrazedGeek 13y ago

breckinloggins 13y ago

I'm excited about where Valve is going with this, of course, but to be honest I'm concerned about controllers the most. Buying a good controller for a PC is not hard, but it's not simple either. Picture yourself as a "living room console guy" getting into PC gaming. You'd like to use a controller for a certain game. Consider: - You can use your XBox360, PS3 controller, or WiiMote, but that's not obvious. You'll need to do some research to figure out that you CAN do it as well as HOW to do it. Again, the steps aren't particularly complicated (especially for the XBox wired controller), but remember who we're targeting, here. If you don't know much about this stuff, you might be worried you'll break something or won't be able to hook your controller back to your console. - If this doesn't occur to you or you'd rather not use your console controllers, you might be tempted to buy one of those gaming controllers you see at Radio Shack, Best Buy, or somewhere online. Chances are high that the controller you bought will be quite shitty in comparison to your console controllers. You'll notice everything from drifting inputs to cheap buttons to just plain uncomfortable hand feel. You'll convince yourself that you just picked wrongly, so you do some more research. You eventually come upon something pretty good, but it's expensive and it's STILL not your XBox 360 controller. - If you get past all this (whether that's finding a good 3rd party controller or reusing your console controller), you're still not QUITE sure how each new PC game will react with a controller. Sure, maybe the mappings make sense, but you worry that you'll come upon something that requires an action the developers forgot to map to a controller button. Or maybe it'll just feel wrong because the controls for your particular game were clearly designed to work best for the physical characteristics of a mouse and keyboard. You know with enough tweaking this won't be a problem, but it still bothers you that you have to tweak anything in the first place. Nothing I've outlined above is a problem for advanced gamers, but if something like a Steam Machine is ever going to take over the living room, it has to be a natural plug n' play experience with respect to input devices. And I mean natural for your mom or uncle, not for you. Luckily it sounds like Valve will be addressing this head-on; I am more excited about what they have to say about this than about what the specs of any particular Steam Machine might be or what the beta might look like.

simias 13y ago
That might have been true in the past (I remember having some trouble with a SideWinder controller on a dedicated control port in the 90's) but these days the 360 wired USB controllers are as plug'n'play as it gets (on windows at least). It Just Works. PS3 controllers are a pity though, you need those shady ad-ridden closed source third party drivers.

piinbinary 13y ago

> The rest will work seamlessly via in-home streaming Does that mean streaming from another computer (presumably running Windows) in your house?

girvo 13y ago
Yes :)

Touche 13y ago

Lessons learned: 1) Hardware is hard. 2) Apparently deadlines are important above all else, even if you have nothing to announce/release.

Fuzzwah 13y ago

So the only thing I learned from this is that its not a SteamBox, it is a SteamMachine.

evanmoran 13y ago
This naming saddened me, maybe in part from remembering the awesomeness that was OrangeBox. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box

djhworld 13y ago

From the sounds of it they're producing multiple different machines. I can imagine it being like this 1) Top of the range high spec machine running SteamOS (£500-£600) 2) Medium spec machine running SteamOS (£250-£400) 3) Basic machine running SteamOS that's designed for people who just want to stream games from their Desktop PC into their living room (£60-£120)

wcchandler 13y ago

It'll be interesting to hear if AMD's announcement today has anything to do with this. http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-eventDetails&EventId=5024687 http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-eventDetails&...

ivarious 13y ago

I want to praise the name choice. "Machine" is very catchy.

cheald 13y ago
I was really pulling for "GabeCube".
mladenkovacevic 13y ago
SteamEngine would've been rather cool too... unless there is something already called the Steam Engine... or if it didn't confuse the connotation too much with other software types of "engines"
- winslow 13y ago
  A few theories are Valve has been working on their Source 2 engine and will release it as a competitor to Unity naming it SteamEngine. Supporting win/mac/linux/steamOS etc. Also SteamMachine might be more unique and thus easier to search for.

julius 13y ago

They want SteamOS to restructure the console market like Android did with the mobile market. They give PC makers a great new customizable way to enter the livingroom-computer market. With their gaming shop built in. This is great for gamers. In a few years any SteamMachine for 300$ will easily outperform PS4/XBone. And have way way more games. And all AAA games (all PC releases).

Anonymous9823 13y ago
The hardware manufacturers will love having a chance to compete with consoles in the living room. It opens up an entirely new revenue stream for them. They'll be marketing this new hardware, and helping to push it into homes. For example, DELL running a marketing campaign, 'Faster than a Playstation 4, more games than an Xbox One, and half the price. Check out the new 2016 Dell Steam Machines.'
chadwickthebold 13y ago
'In a few years any SteamMachine for 300$ will easily outperform PS4/XBone.' Uhh, do you have any support for this claim?
- jpadkins 13y ago
  moore's law? Or more specifically, look at charts of cpu/$, gpu/$ memory/$ and flash/$ over time. They all go down over time.
  - chadwickthebold 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure there's the same distinction today, where a ~$500 console is more graphically powerful than a ~$500 general-purpose computer. I don't think that you're going to see that price point move very much 'in a few years'. The better case for the SteamMachine is in whatever streaming capabilities it will have. I venture to say that most people who care about bleeding-edge graphics probably have their own custom boxes already, and if Valve can port that over to the living room they'll really have hit a home run.

mikevm 13y ago

I'm rather skeptical about their in-home streaming option. In a world where games are buying LCDs to minimize input lag, what kind of a performance are they expecting from streaming a game over LAN? I'm interested in knowing how this streaming is going to work. Is this similar to VNC?

Kiro 13y ago
I don't think that applies to the majority of gamers. In fact, I bet most gamers don't even know what input lag is.
millstone 13y ago
I'm more concerned with the prospect of needing to buy both a PC and a Steambox to play games.
- yaeger 13y ago
  >needing to buy That's a non issue. Valve would be stupid to start making Linux only games. The SteamMachine is for people who would want to play pc games in their living room but who don't have a PC anywhere close to connect it to the tv. So now, they can get the Steam Machine. But since Linux based games on Steam are still a minority, people might say they don't want that "console" if it doesn't have much games so Valve set it up that you can stream every windows based game from your pc that can be anywhere in your home via lan to your SteamMachine.

devindotcom 13y ago

Why on earth have they not called the hardware "Steam Engine" instead of these strange other names?

meritt 13y ago
Maybe they are saving that for their Unity3D competitor :)
- brymaster 13y ago
  I really like this theory. Seems to me that if Friday's announcement isn't a game reveal, it'll instead be Source Engine 2 and a possible Unity competitor. This would make a lot of sense if Valve is serious about getting developers on board for their SteamMachine/Linux/cross-platform strategy. Valve has already announced the OS and hardware, dev tools could be next.
wvenable 13y ago
Strange names are much easier to search for.
- devindotcom 13y ago
  Their company is called "Valve" ;)
  - meowface 13y ago
    And they have software named Steam and a game named Half-Life. The top Google hits for all of those things (depending on how Google rates what kind of consumer you are) are not Valve's products. They seem to do fine, though.
jessaustin 13y ago
They really like "Steam Machine" off Human After All, and they're looking forward to using it in a marketing campaign?

dombili 13y ago

So, according to the last answer, the 3rd announcement will probably be about a gamepad or an input device of sorts. That's a bummer. I know it was very unlikely, but HL3 announcement would have made me so happy. I'm still hopeful though, since it's been confirmed that Source 2 is in the works. Valve usually shows off their new engine with a new HL game.

jakebellacera 13y ago
While HL3 would be an awesome announcement, it doesn't seem highly relevant to SteamOS. I'm sure if anything, they'll release HL3 as a Steam-exclusive game as a launch title.

snotrockets 13y ago

Look at the beta eligibility list: they require the would be participants to get a leg in the steam community facilities, and try playing in living room mode. That would give a huge crowd an incentive to try Steam the way Valve is hoping it'd be used in the future. So they give 300 boxes, but get thousands of people trying their console-like services. Evil geniuses, those Valvers are.

evanmoran 13y ago
Valve does love achievement unlocks!
this_user 13y ago
It's not only that, but look at all the steps they have taken in the last 12 months: 1) Convince Nvidia and AMD to improve their Linux graphic drivers - probably by promising them additional revenue from Steambox sales - to lay the groundwork 2) Port Steam to Linux, start porting their own games 3) Build a Steam-based Linux distribution and make it available to everyone 4) Find partners that build custom hardware to run SteamOS IMO Valve is trying to achieve two goals with this. The first goal seems to be to hedge their bets OS-wise. Gabe Newell was quite explicit in his criticism of the road MS has taken with Windows 8. Valve may very well view this as an existential threat to their business model if MS for instance takes the Apple route of promoting app store downloads over the old way of installing software. Thus, it makes sense to work towards an alternative platform that is not entirely controlled by one company. The second goal would be to introduce a new competitor in the console market by leveraging the existing Steam ecosystem and game catalogue. The beauty of this strategy is that each step adds value on its own even if the ultimate goal of establishing Steamboxes should fail

incision 13y ago

Marketing in the guise of a beta/prototype program. Google seems to have been pretty successful doing with Glass and I'm sure there were prior examples. In any case, I'm pretty much guaranteed to buy the finished product. What little gaming I've done for the past 4 years or so has been almost exclusively via Steam.

arianvanp 13y ago

This cought my eye: > Can I download the OS to try it out? You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that) but not yet. Wondering if that'd include their entire product in source code? probably not, aye?

cheald 13y ago
Almost assuredly not, since their DRM is a big part of their platform. They may include pieces of it, though.
- jmcqk6 13y ago
  Isn't most of their DRM encryption based? I mean, it's not all that restrictive, and it's quite possible that simply seeing the code for the DRM would not be enough to circumvent it. I think other companies would have a problem, but I don't think valve is probably one of of them. I could be wrong though.
  - cheald 13y ago
    Preorder delivery is encrypted, yeah. However, they also have bits in Steam-delivered games that can check for a valid Steam session, terminate the game session if the Steam session is lost, and the like. I don't think they'll be shipping some of those components because they wouldn't want to enable people building custom Steam installs that just stub out the DRM features.
- thefreeman 13y ago
  While I agree that they will definitely not be releasing source for Steam, I doubt its for DRM reasons. As far as I can tell steamapi.DLL DRM is pretty thoroughly owned.
Mahn 13y ago
Well it's built on top of Linux so it would only make sense. Plus they seem eager to get people to hack it, so why not? Can't hurt their business either way, they still own Steam as a store.

oddshocks 13y ago

GG Windows

CraigJPerry 13y ago

>> Make 10 Steam friends (if you haven't already) Are there any HN groups on Steam? If I try to create a group named Hacker News, it's already in use. If I try to find it, no results found :-)

ward 13y ago
I don't know about any HN groups or what not, but reddit has http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamFriend http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamFriend if you're in need of more people.
Aloisius 13y ago
Just hop on here [1] and jump to the end of the thread. View profile of 10 people & add them. Should take only a minute. [1] http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0/864980009908627949/ http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0...

Florin_Andrei 13y ago

As a parent, if these things don't come with time-based parental controls, that would reduce their appeal A LOT. Windows, for all its warts, is great this way. The Windows-based PC in the living room, running Steam, has time-based parental controls configured at the OS level. This works great for everyone involved, reduces effort and contention. Also, kids do really well on fixed timetables. I've opened a discussion thread in the Steam Universe forum, on this very topic. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0/864980009916913495/ http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse/discussions/0...

InTheSwiss 13y ago
Seriously? When I was a kind my NES and SNES didn't need built in time controls and I am just fine. I am a parent (11 year old girl and 7 month old son) and I restrict her (son is a little too young!) time playing games in the same way my parents did by making sure I do my chores and homework first. I don't rely on OS level parental controls and I find it kind of sad people need to. I spend a lot of time playing Animal Crossing with my daughter for example and she knows when she can and can't play it. I guess I just find it kind of depressing that we have all these kind of digital restrictions in place for kids these days. Part of the reason I am successful in what I do [professionally] is that I didn't have such restrictions as a child and I hope my daughter in the same. At the end of the day playing Mario Kart or Viva Piñata isn't going to ruin her life.
- lelandbatey 13y ago
  I'm ambivalent on the topic. Sure you can instill the values of proper time management into your kid and hope they abide by them when you're not around. However, I don't feel it's unreasonable to have an automated solution for this kind of thing. Just like I'd love to have automated lighting in my home, or automated curtains, or a computer that will automatically turn on at certain times, sometimes it's also nice to have a things that automatically turn off after a while as well.
  - InTheSwiss 13y ago

Steko 13y ago

2014 Oculus Rift expected to ship widely demoed and lauded next generation experience. Nov 2013 Sony and MS start shipping new consoles. Oct 2013 Apple likely to announce and immediately ship $129=$199 A7X based console killer. Sep 2013 Valve announces beta opt in for SteamMachine with zero details on product.

cheald 13y ago
> Oct 2013 Apple likely to announce $149 A7X based console killer. Maybe I'm just missing something here, but I'm pretty sure an ARM-based system has exactly zero chance of displacing current gaming platforms. They could whip up a sexy Ouya competitor, sure, but Ouya isn't exactly setting the gaming world on fire. An ARM console would be a competitor to phone/tablet gaming, not to console gaming.
- commandar 13y ago
  Sony might have a chance of it with the Vita TV, but that has as much to do with PS4 streaming as its native games.
- Steko 13y ago
  The Ouya GPU pushes 12 GFLOPs (gamecube, original xbox quality). The GPUs in the 5S give 76 GFLOPs and are underclocked at 300 Mhz for battery reasons. A hypothetical A7X which, following the A6X, has twice as many GPUs as the A7, would put us at 150 GFLOPs. Keep in mind the A6X is still on a mobile device. Up the clock speed to 500 Mhz and we've arrived at 250 GFLOPs. This is comparable to the PS3 (230) and 360 (260) and the assumptions seem pretty reasonable. GFLOPs aren't the whole story but it's important to understand what class of machine Apple could ship now. It's certainly console quality. Specwise it won't hold a candle to the PS4 (1.8 TFLOPs), at least in 2013/14. But as we learned last generation the new stud consoles often trail not only underpowered upstarts (Wii) but sometimes their own previous generation consoles due to supply or price issues. https://www.google.com/search?q=ps2+outsells+ps3&safe=active https://www.google.com/search?q=ps2+outsells+ps3&safe=active And in terms of price Apple could ship the system we're talking about with a decent amount of RAM and a controller for $149. Of course they won't even market it primarily as a gaming device so it would probably ship without a (gaming) controller for $129+.

dkhenry 13y ago

Now I just need 10 friends http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197975331116 http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197975331116

sodafountan 13y ago

what MS-Dos was to PCs in the 80's or what Android was to Smartphones more recently is exactly what Steam OS will be to home consoles in the present. I have faith that Valve will dominate the next generation of interactive entertainment, if of course they don't mess anything up.

Tichy 13y ago

Great picture, those machines remind me of the turrets from portal 2

msie 13y ago

I wish they would follow Apple's lead and tightly control the hardware. It would make it easier for devs to test and consumers to make a choice. Apple's wildly successful with their iPhone business model. Please try to avoid the fragmentation issues with Android. Windows already owns the home PC market, why go after it?

msie 13y ago
To add further: there is only one XBOne hw configuration, there is only one PS4 hw configuration, there is only one WiiU hw configuration. Does Valve think it knows better?
- cheald 13y ago
  There are $BIGNUM PC configurations, which Valve currently provides games and gaming platform services for. I'm gonna say "Yes, they do know better".
M2Ys4U 13y ago
> It would make it easier for devs to test and consumers to make a choice. A choice of one is no choice at all >Apple's wildly successful with their iPhone business model. Have you seen the mobile market share? Android is king.
- msie 13y ago
  Yes, I will admit that. Android is king with lots of devices running old versions. Google is trying to wrestle control of OS updates away from the HW manufacturers and Valve has to try to avoid that. Also the choice is SteamBox vs XBOne, PS4, WiiU. Better to have one device to focus all marketing and development efforts on than try the Windows Everywhere tactic.
qu4z-2 13y ago
> It would make it easier for [...] consumers to make a choice. Because no choice is as easy as no choice?

shurcooL 13y ago

I am most curious about "Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input."

ludoo 13y ago

Bah, I thought the link was about real steam machines, who cares about a game platform...

glazskunrukitis 13y ago

At first I thought this will have to do something with steam powered machines[1] [1] http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/steam_washington_forweb.jpg http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/steam_washingto...

nej 13y ago

I'm very excited about this. Go Valve!

shadowmint 13y ago

I'm a tiny bit concerned. Can I download the OS to try it out? You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that) but not yet. Open source os. Hardware partners for devices. Sound familiar? >_> android. So, when I buy a samsung steambox it's going to come with its own BallsWiz UI customization as they try to differentiate isnt it?

candydance 13y ago
Similarly it means that a group of consumers could work together and create a great build to use (eg Cyanogen Mod). As long as we can install our own OS it'll be fine.

z3phyr 13y ago

Android chose Java as its programming language of choice. What kind of APIs and programming language will SteamBox use? What is the probability that it will be C++ (C++11)?

bastards 13y ago

I am not trying to be a downer, but I think this is going to be a huge flop. Gaming appliances need to be focused at the gaming market, which Sony and MS own like the U.S. and USSR in the mid to late 20th century. Nintendo messed up with the Wii U and probably won't recover, and everything else is secondary, for now. I even think Apple's move into the TV gaming market will be mostly a bust, but I could be wrong, because the casual game market is strong. I've personally not bought a single game from Steam. I know they are big, but I just don't have time for it. I'm not the target market though.

tsahyt 13y ago
I haven't bought a Steam game either. In fact, I don't even have an account. For the past couple of years I've been locked into the MS ecosystem with the Xbox 360. I will not buy the Xbox One though. I don't need a surveillance machine in my living room. I was never a fan of the PlayStation. For a while it looked like I had to build a PC and have it run the system I dislike the most, just for the sake of gaming. Seriously, I'd buy (or build) a SteamMachine in a heartbeat. It's the most sensible option for me at this time.

acd 13y ago

This means we can finally ditch Windows for Linux. It also means it will be really important for video graphics cards makers to have fast Linux drivers.

pearjuice 13y ago

Right now when it comes to computers, there is an implicit monopoly. There is only 1 company on the planet that supplies both their own hardware and an operating system of their own bundled with it. This company is Apple. Because they supply both hardware and software, they can sell a "complete experience" to customers who, quite frankly, will lap up anything they hear about computers and their 'black magic'. But Valve are about to change this. The so called Steambox announced a day or so ago is now going to be in direct competition with Apple's own devices as Valve can now offer this "complete experience" package too. If you want to know why this is so important you only need to realise that the term "Mac" for most people refers not only to the computer itself, but to the operating system also. No other company has anything that comes close to this, but soon Valve will, and the more time passes and the more people get accustomed to the range of available Steamboxes, the most ground Valve will gain, and the more Apple will lose.