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Gains in efficiency can also be looked at as reductions in installation costs, for a given capacity. They can support a greater price premium than just the extr

by jws 13y ago

Gains in efficiency can also be looked at as reductions in installation costs, for a given capacity. They can support a greater price premium than just the extra power would command.

scythe 13y ago
The cost of solar today is dominated not by panels, but by conversion and installation. Typical solar panels these days are about $0.80/watt, but installation hovers around $3/watt. The former is competitive with fossil fuels; the latter is not. So the efficiency gain is actually very good, because current panels are on average 14% (iirc) efficient. If that can be raised to 42% the installation drops to $1, for example; with a few more gains here and there you're golden. The difficulty is in manufacturing these things; thin films are easy, this is not.
- twelvechairs 13y ago
  where are these figures from? seems incredible for installation to be substantially more than the panels in my rxperience. unless 'installation' is including the price of other fixed components (batteries and inverter). Also 1/3 size does not mean 1/3 installation costs. lots of the underlying figures don't change (truck call out, overhead, installation of other elements, cost of permits, electrical wiring, etc).
  - jules 13y ago
    The point is that you still install the same amount of panels, but now you get three times as many watts. Since the other underlying figures don't change, the installation cost is 1/3 per watt.
  - scythe 13y ago
    It's a rather common thread, I'm having a bit of trouble finding an authoritative source but let's look around: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html >Incidentally, naked solar panels currently (2013) go for about $1 per watt ($1000 per kWp), installation costs are about $4 per watt, for a total installed cost of about $5 per watt, without batteries. http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2012/11/27/the-installed-price-of-solar-photovoltaic-systems-in-the-u-s-continues-to-decline-at-a-rapid-pace/ http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2012/11/27/the-insta... >average non-module costs for residential and commercial systems declined by roughly 30 percent from 1998 to 2011, but have not declined as rapidly as module prices in recent years. As a result, non-module costs now represent a sizable fraction of the installed price of PV systems >the median installed price of PV systems installed in 2011 was $6.10 per watt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel#Price http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel#Price >in 2012 it was estimated that the quantity cost per watt was about $0.60 http://www.wholesalesolar.com/bulk-solar-panels-by-the-pallet.html http://www.wholesalesolar.com/bulk-solar-panels-by-the-palle... >Price per watt: $0.84 So if anything, I might be lowballing it. I was thinking in terms of tripling wattage for the same amount of effort, (which makes sense for commercial PV) rather than thirding effort for the same wattage (which makes more sense at home), so your secondary point is valid. If at-home PV takes off, it might be a good time to be an electrician.

by jws 13y ago

Gains in efficiency can also be looked at as reductions in installation costs, for a given capacity. They can support a greater price premium than just the extra power would command.

scythe 13y ago

The cost of solar today is dominated not by panels, but by conversion and installation. Typical solar panels these days are about $0.80/watt, but installation hovers around $3/watt. The former is competitive with fossil fuels; the latter is not. So the efficiency gain is actually very good, because current panels are on average 14% (iirc) efficient. If that can be raised to 42% the installation drops to $1, for example; with a few more gains here and there you're golden. The difficulty is in manufacturing these things; thin films are easy, this is not.

twelvechairs 13y ago
where are these figures from? seems incredible for installation to be substantially more than the panels in my rxperience. unless 'installation' is including the price of other fixed components (batteries and inverter). Also 1/3 size does not mean 1/3 installation costs. lots of the underlying figures don't change (truck call out, overhead, installation of other elements, cost of permits, electrical wiring, etc).
- jules 13y ago
  The point is that you still install the same amount of panels, but now you get three times as many watts. Since the other underlying figures don't change, the installation cost is 1/3 per watt.
- scythe 13y ago
  It's a rather common thread, I'm having a bit of trouble finding an authoritative source but let's look around: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html >Incidentally, naked solar panels currently (2013) go for about $1 per watt ($1000 per kWp), installation costs are about $4 per watt, for a total installed cost of about $5 per watt, without batteries. http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2012/11/27/the-installed-price-of-solar-photovoltaic-systems-in-the-u-s-continues-to-decline-at-a-rapid-pace/ http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2012/11/27/the-insta... >average non-module costs for residential and commercial systems declined by roughly 30 percent from 1998 to 2011, but have not declined as rapidly as module prices in recent years. As a result, non-module costs now represent a sizable fraction of the installed price of PV systems >the median installed price of PV systems installed in 2011 was $6.10 per watt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel#Price http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panel#Price >in 2012 it was estimated that the quantity cost per watt was about $0.60 http://www.wholesalesolar.com/bulk-solar-panels-by-the-pallet.html http://www.wholesalesolar.com/bulk-solar-panels-by-the-palle... >Price per watt: $0.84 So if anything, I might be lowballing it. I was thinking in terms of tripling wattage for the same amount of effort, (which makes sense for commercial PV) rather than thirding effort for the same wattage (which makes more sense at home), so your secondary point is valid. If at-home PV takes off, it might be a good time to be an electrician.