9 ms·

Ziptr to Discontinue Services

79 points by notwhyships 13y ago

pdknsk 13y ago
HN upvoting can be a mystery sometimes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6440367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6440367
- ISL 13y ago
  On the upside, if it's really important, it tends to reappear again and again until it gets picked up. HN: Lots of false negatives, few persistent false positives.
- minimaxir 13y ago
  The timing makes all the difference. Luck, too.
  - leknarf 13y ago
    A while back, I wrote a little app that tracks the relative scores of new submissions and the front page, which tries to tell you when would be a good time to post: http://hnnotify.leknarf.net/ http://hnnotify.leknarf.net/ The twitter notification part broke at some point (I haven't had time to fix it), but the main chart is surprisingly accurate. It shows that it's been a good time to post for the last hour or so, so this submission was very well timed. That other submission was sent at a particularly poor time (about 2 hours ago), when few people were upvoting on the new page. Timing really does make a big difference.
- pbreit 13y ago
  From the other submission, a link to Ziptr's announcements: http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713 http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713
- tikhonj 13y ago
  It's not entirely mysterious: because of the way votes are weighted, the timing of the first two or three really matters. If you manage to get them while you're still on the new page, you have a good chance of getting on the front page which is the only way to get much exposure. If you fall off the new page without that, your article is essentially forgotten. This means the success of your article falls down to the whims of the few people browsing `new' at any given moment. If you're lucky, there are people interested in your topic there; if not, your article might easily fall through the cracks. Moreover, since `new' has a very bad signal to noise ratio, most people do not spend very much time there. I certainly don't! So this means it's even more likely for an article to fall through the cracks there. For better or worse, this means HN misses out on good articles as they fall through `new' without getting votes. To get anywhere your article needs to be both good and lucky.
  - ars 13y ago
    Or have friends. The first few votes matter a LOT. So as soon as you submit you ask 3 friends to vote it up (make sure they vote within a few minutes of each other). That gives a chance. If the community doesn't like it it won't stay up, but it gives you at least a chance.
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      Actually, you're describing a voting ring, which is against the rules and is bannable. Luckily the software is intelligent enough that it detects people who do such things and automatically nullifies the effect of those votes.
      - ars 13y ago
        I guess so. I should clarify I've never actually done this, just seen other people [say they] did it. And watching the vote patterns correlated with homepage position on my few submissions tells me it would work. BTW I don't see any mention of this in the rules.
rdl 13y ago
I wonder if this is governmental pressure or merely "ran out of money"/normal commercial concerns.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 13y ago
  NSA concerns clearly.
  - ars 13y ago
    Clearly? Really? There is nothing in the slightest clear about it.
    - rwbhn 13y ago
      That's exactly what makes one suspicious.
      - trothoun 13y ago
        It could be anything embarrassing or that would be dangerous/costly to talk about. Government interference is only one possibility. Maybe a competitor paid them to shutdown. (probably not, but it's possible)
      - pekk 13y ago
        When in doubt, assume it was the NSA. That's a safe assumption to make any time you have no knowledge at all.
        krapp 13y ago
        I'm going to start blaming them for the weather. I've got no evidence that they're controlling the weather, but it seems like something they would do if they could.
        X4 13y ago
        actually it's provable that the weather is partly controlled, at least in Germany. http://www.br.de/themen/wissen/wetter-meteorologie-rosenheimer-hagelabwehr100.html http://www.br.de/themen/wissen/wetter-meteorologie-rosenheim... No need to be a conspiracy-theorist, it's simply true. They use that to avoid hail damaging the crops. They clearly can manipulate the weather, the question is to what degree and when do they do it and with what aim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification
AsymetricCom 13y ago
> Ziptr, the secure communications service predominantly targeting legal and accounting professionals, appears to be closing its doors as a ...
tptacek 13y ago
“It is with great regret that I am writing to inform you of the closing of Ziptr, Inc. and the discontinuation of all Ziptr products,” said Bhathena. “Your sense of innovation and willingness to believe in a solution that offered both security and ease of use was a source of energy and inspiration for our company. For that, we are immensely grateful.” Bhathena and other Ziptr staff did not immediately respond to requests for comment. This doesn't sound a whole lot different from any other un-graceful startup shutdowns. Did this service have a lot of users? Also, is the characterization of Ziptr as an "encryption provider" accurate? Or were they just a secure document storage company? There are a lot of companies that do "document encryption" and "email encryption" for enterprises that are not, as HN privacy enthusiasts understand the term, really crypto products.
- notwhyships 13y ago
  "You need to export all of your data from your Ziptr account by 12:00 noon Eastern on Friday, September 27, 2013. After this time, we cannot guarantee access to your data." http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713 http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713 That though from Ziptr's 9/24 blog post is unusual: both the ridiculously short time period of 3 days, and the phrase "cannot guarantee." Also, I find it hard to believe that such a serious serial entrepreneur with such significant backing (approx. $7M) would close up shop so suddenly and unprofessionally. Why burn bridges like this?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    That's also what you'd write if your enterprise software company was betting on last minute hail-marys to keep the lights on, didn't want to admit the bind they were in, and literally ran completely out of money. Also, if they were concerned about complying with an NSL, why would they offer even 3 days? During those three days, their users would all be surveilled as they pulled their data off the site.
- X4 13y ago
  Do any of you guys have infos on what crypto they used and how? I've never heard about Ziptr.
umsm 13y ago
The only way we will solve secure email is by implementing an open-sourced solution. Period. It appears like this may be a space where we can't make money from the core service.
andyhmltn 13y ago
Covering a page in a 'please wait this page is loading' with an advert for 10 seconds is a sure fire way to make me leave instantly.

79 points by notwhyships 13y ago

HN upvoting can be a mystery sometimes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6440367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6440367

ISL 13y ago
On the upside, if it's really important, it tends to reappear again and again until it gets picked up. HN: Lots of false negatives, few persistent false positives.
minimaxir 13y ago
The timing makes all the difference. Luck, too.
- leknarf 13y ago
  A while back, I wrote a little app that tracks the relative scores of new submissions and the front page, which tries to tell you when would be a good time to post: http://hnnotify.leknarf.net/ http://hnnotify.leknarf.net/ The twitter notification part broke at some point (I haven't had time to fix it), but the main chart is surprisingly accurate. It shows that it's been a good time to post for the last hour or so, so this submission was very well timed. That other submission was sent at a particularly poor time (about 2 hours ago), when few people were upvoting on the new page. Timing really does make a big difference.
pbreit 13y ago
From the other submission, a link to Ziptr's announcements: http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713 http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713
tikhonj 13y ago
It's not entirely mysterious: because of the way votes are weighted, the timing of the first two or three really matters. If you manage to get them while you're still on the new page, you have a good chance of getting on the front page which is the only way to get much exposure. If you fall off the new page without that, your article is essentially forgotten. This means the success of your article falls down to the whims of the few people browsing `new' at any given moment. If you're lucky, there are people interested in your topic there; if not, your article might easily fall through the cracks. Moreover, since `new' has a very bad signal to noise ratio, most people do not spend very much time there. I certainly don't! So this means it's even more likely for an article to fall through the cracks there. For better or worse, this means HN misses out on good articles as they fall through `new' without getting votes. To get anywhere your article needs to be both good and lucky.
- ars 13y ago
  Or have friends. The first few votes matter a LOT. So as soon as you submit you ask 3 friends to vote it up (make sure they vote within a few minutes of each other). That gives a chance. If the community doesn't like it it won't stay up, but it gives you at least a chance.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    Actually, you're describing a voting ring, which is against the rules and is bannable. Luckily the software is intelligent enough that it detects people who do such things and automatically nullifies the effect of those votes.
    - ars 13y ago
      I guess so. I should clarify I've never actually done this, just seen other people [say they] did it. And watching the vote patterns correlated with homepage position on my few submissions tells me it would work. BTW I don't see any mention of this in the rules.

rdl 13y ago

I wonder if this is governmental pressure or merely "ran out of money"/normal commercial concerns.

0xdeadbeefbabe 13y ago
NSA concerns clearly.
- ars 13y ago
  Clearly? Really? There is nothing in the slightest clear about it.
  - rwbhn 13y ago
    That's exactly what makes one suspicious.
    - trothoun 13y ago
      It could be anything embarrassing or that would be dangerous/costly to talk about. Government interference is only one possibility. Maybe a competitor paid them to shutdown. (probably not, but it's possible)
    - pekk 13y ago
      When in doubt, assume it was the NSA. That's a safe assumption to make any time you have no knowledge at all.
      - krapp 13y ago
        I'm going to start blaming them for the weather. I've got no evidence that they're controlling the weather, but it seems like something they would do if they could.
        X4 13y ago
        actually it's provable that the weather is partly controlled, at least in Germany. http://www.br.de/themen/wissen/wetter-meteorologie-rosenheimer-hagelabwehr100.html http://www.br.de/themen/wissen/wetter-meteorologie-rosenheim... No need to be a conspiracy-theorist, it's simply true. They use that to avoid hail damaging the crops. They clearly can manipulate the weather, the question is to what degree and when do they do it and with what aim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification

AsymetricCom 13y ago

> Ziptr, the secure communications service predominantly targeting legal and accounting professionals, appears to be closing its doors as a ...

tptacek 13y ago

“It is with great regret that I am writing to inform you of the closing of Ziptr, Inc. and the discontinuation of all Ziptr products,” said Bhathena. “Your sense of innovation and willingness to believe in a solution that offered both security and ease of use was a source of energy and inspiration for our company. For that, we are immensely grateful.” Bhathena and other Ziptr staff did not immediately respond to requests for comment. This doesn't sound a whole lot different from any other un-graceful startup shutdowns. Did this service have a lot of users? Also, is the characterization of Ziptr as an "encryption provider" accurate? Or were they just a secure document storage company? There are a lot of companies that do "document encryption" and "email encryption" for enterprises that are not, as HN privacy enthusiasts understand the term, really crypto products.

notwhyships 13y ago
"You need to export all of your data from your Ziptr account by 12:00 noon Eastern on Friday, September 27, 2013. After this time, we cannot guarantee access to your data." http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713 http://www.ziptr.com/ziptr-closing-92713 That though from Ziptr's 9/24 blog post is unusual: both the ridiculously short time period of 3 days, and the phrase "cannot guarantee." Also, I find it hard to believe that such a serious serial entrepreneur with such significant backing (approx. $7M) would close up shop so suddenly and unprofessionally. Why burn bridges like this?
- tptacek 13y ago
  That's also what you'd write if your enterprise software company was betting on last minute hail-marys to keep the lights on, didn't want to admit the bind they were in, and literally ran completely out of money. Also, if they were concerned about complying with an NSL, why would they offer even 3 days? During those three days, their users would all be surveilled as they pulled their data off the site.
X4 13y ago
Do any of you guys have infos on what crypto they used and how? I've never heard about Ziptr.

umsm 13y ago

The only way we will solve secure email is by implementing an open-sourced solution. Period. It appears like this may be a space where we can't make money from the core service.

andyhmltn 13y ago

Covering a page in a 'please wait this page is loading' with an advert for 10 seconds is a sure fire way to make me leave instantly.