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Excuse me if I'm being naive, but does Python development need an IDE? In what ways could it be helpful? I'm under the impression that Python is not compiled ge

Excuse me if I'm being naive, but does Python development need an IDE? In what ways could it be helpful? I'm under the impression that Python is not compiled generally. I'm coming from the Ruby point of view

chaosphere2112 13y ago
IDE's are used for more than just building the code; they provide UIs for debugging capabilities, code completion, syntax highlighting, refactoring support, VCS integrations, and much, much more. That said, I do my python development in Sublime Text using the Jedi autocomplete library (https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi).
masklinn 13y ago
> I'm under the impression that Python is not compiled generally. The direct ancestor to today's IDEs are Smalltalk environments. Smalltalk is about as un-compiled as you can get. This and that are completely orthogonal concerns. > In what ways could it be helpful? Navigation across projects (via structural searches or hyperlinking), static analysis (including library- or framework-specific e.g. PyCharm knows some strings have specific meaning in django projects and can check that there's no mismatch), refactorings, documentation, visual debugging, ... Some of it can be replicated with extensively customized editor and a multitude of external tools, others not really.
heyitsnick 13y ago
I've tried a lot of IDE's for python development in the past and always went back to a basic text editor; the extra features never outweighed the bloat. But then i found PyCharm and never looked back. I feel i develop at least 50% faster with any serious project; i still use Sublime for the one-off scripts, but everything else i find the introspection, code completion and refactoring just so good its now hard to go without. Props to Jetbrains, and I look forward to v3 pro! (my 2.7 isn't yet telling me i have an upgrade... i'm hoping this is coming soon!)
- bsaul 13y ago
  See my question above. You don't need your 2.7 to tell you anything. If you've got a license you can simply install the 3, import the settings and use the same license.
  - heyitsnick 13y ago
    If memory serves, this will install it side-by-side with existing install, whereas doing it in-app upgrades (windows). Could be wrong though.
  - scardine 13y ago
    Just use the "help"->"check for update".
- taude 13y ago
  Same boat here. I got PyCharm when it was on sale last year. Never looked back. I enjoyed setting up my viertualenvs, having multiple projects open, source code navigation. And then to top it off, all the Javascript/Html/css editing stuff as well. All in an easy to setup package. Rich set of plug-ins, too. Note: I still use my other text editors for one-off file editing and such, but PyCharm is my control center for the projects...
gknoy 13y ago
PyCharm can show color your code based on style checks (pep8) or compatibility with python 3. This helps me notice typos and mistakes more easily, as well.
jafaku 13y ago
Ruby devs don't understand the need for interfaces or type-hinting either, so this doesn't surprise me. But then they go and try to make fun of PHP.
- encoderer 13y ago
  b/c type hinting in PHP is a wishy-washy half feature typical of the language. Python engineers don't understand type hinting either -- and we like it that way. Because if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, treat it like a duck.
  - jafaku 13y ago
    It's not a half feature. But yeah, I can see that "engineers" like you don't understand it. The same duck metaphor is stupidly used to criticize interfaces. And then you have everyone trying to use hacks to get around this issue, usually people who do understand what "design by contract" is, but for some reason don't want to leave Ruby. Just google "ruby interface" and see for yourself. This problem won't go away until people like you stop spreading lies to justify the lack of features (eg: "Hurr durr, Java needs interfaces because it's too rigid, Ruby doesn't need that, lol!").
ChikkaChiChi 13y ago
IDEs allow you to treat your entire project scope as one big ass open file. You can refactor, autocomplete, click-through, etc. in an entirely natural way that text editors cannot do (out-of-the-box). This is a gross oversimplification, but it's how I sold a few of my friends on Jetbrains during their Apocalypse sale :)
vezzy-fnord 13y ago
I'm not a Ruby programmer, but I agree with your sentiment. I find an IDE for a language as lightweight as Python to be overkill.
- gridspy 13y ago
  It is overkill until you start to build something like http://gridspy.com http://gridspy.com (entire web stack in python) I find it extremely helpful to have symbol lookup in my own codebase, suggestions, fast file opening and the ability to have useful highlights in Python, Html, coffeescript, javascript, css, et al.
LyndsySimon 13y ago
The test runner alone is worth the cost of entry. You do write tests, right? :)

chaosphere2112 13y ago

IDE's are used for more than just building the code; they provide UIs for debugging capabilities, code completion, syntax highlighting, refactoring support, VCS integrations, and much, much more. That said, I do my python development in Sublime Text using the Jedi autocomplete library (https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi).

masklinn 13y ago

> I'm under the impression that Python is not compiled generally. The direct ancestor to today's IDEs are Smalltalk environments. Smalltalk is about as un-compiled as you can get. This and that are completely orthogonal concerns. > In what ways could it be helpful? Navigation across projects (via structural searches or hyperlinking), static analysis (including library- or framework-specific e.g. PyCharm knows some strings have specific meaning in django projects and can check that there's no mismatch), refactorings, documentation, visual debugging, ... Some of it can be replicated with extensively customized editor and a multitude of external tools, others not really.

heyitsnick 13y ago

I've tried a lot of IDE's for python development in the past and always went back to a basic text editor; the extra features never outweighed the bloat. But then i found PyCharm and never looked back. I feel i develop at least 50% faster with any serious project; i still use Sublime for the one-off scripts, but everything else i find the introspection, code completion and refactoring just so good its now hard to go without. Props to Jetbrains, and I look forward to v3 pro! (my 2.7 isn't yet telling me i have an upgrade... i'm hoping this is coming soon!)

bsaul 13y ago
See my question above. You don't need your 2.7 to tell you anything. If you've got a license you can simply install the 3, import the settings and use the same license.
- heyitsnick 13y ago
  If memory serves, this will install it side-by-side with existing install, whereas doing it in-app upgrades (windows). Could be wrong though.
- scardine 13y ago
  Just use the "help"->"check for update".
taude 13y ago
Same boat here. I got PyCharm when it was on sale last year. Never looked back. I enjoyed setting up my viertualenvs, having multiple projects open, source code navigation. And then to top it off, all the Javascript/Html/css editing stuff as well. All in an easy to setup package. Rich set of plug-ins, too. Note: I still use my other text editors for one-off file editing and such, but PyCharm is my control center for the projects...

gknoy 13y ago

PyCharm can show color your code based on style checks (pep8) or compatibility with python 3. This helps me notice typos and mistakes more easily, as well.

jafaku 13y ago

Ruby devs don't understand the need for interfaces or type-hinting either, so this doesn't surprise me. But then they go and try to make fun of PHP.

encoderer 13y ago
b/c type hinting in PHP is a wishy-washy half feature typical of the language. Python engineers don't understand type hinting either -- and we like it that way. Because if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, treat it like a duck.
- jafaku 13y ago
  It's not a half feature. But yeah, I can see that "engineers" like you don't understand it. The same duck metaphor is stupidly used to criticize interfaces. And then you have everyone trying to use hacks to get around this issue, usually people who do understand what "design by contract" is, but for some reason don't want to leave Ruby. Just google "ruby interface" and see for yourself. This problem won't go away until people like you stop spreading lies to justify the lack of features (eg: "Hurr durr, Java needs interfaces because it's too rigid, Ruby doesn't need that, lol!").

ChikkaChiChi 13y ago

IDEs allow you to treat your entire project scope as one big ass open file. You can refactor, autocomplete, click-through, etc. in an entirely natural way that text editors cannot do (out-of-the-box). This is a gross oversimplification, but it's how I sold a few of my friends on Jetbrains during their Apocalypse sale :)

vezzy-fnord 13y ago

I'm not a Ruby programmer, but I agree with your sentiment. I find an IDE for a language as lightweight as Python to be overkill.

gridspy 13y ago
It is overkill until you start to build something like http://gridspy.com http://gridspy.com (entire web stack in python) I find it extremely helpful to have symbol lookup in my own codebase, suggestions, fast file opening and the ability to have useful highlights in Python, Html, coffeescript, javascript, css, et al.

LyndsySimon 13y ago

The test runner alone is worth the cost of entry. You do write tests, right? :)